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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#171

Post by randomfinn »

ajaimk wrote: post #115
robin_reala wrote: post #51

Feels like, as per usual, people haven’t read the source text.[1] In order to ensure that portable batteries that were incorporated into appliances are subject to separate collection, treatment and high quality recycling once those appliances become waste, provisions to ensure the removability and replaceability of batteries in such appliances are necessary. Consumer safety should be ensured, in line with Union law a…

Pretty sure the iPhone 14 already satisfies this requirement

> A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it.

Doesn't it still require heat to undo the glue?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#172

Post by Timon3 »

eterevsky wrote: post #170
Timon3 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waterproof phones with replacable batteries might not be waterproof after the replacement - so why don't you just keep the original battery, and have a waterproof phone? Win-win for everyone.

From my understanding, sealant used to make phones waterproof is basically glue, which precludes "easy" replacement of batteries.

I don't think you properly understood my comment. I am specifically saying: even if replacing the battery makes the phone no longer waterproof, you can just not replace the battery. Nobody comes into your house at night and forces you to install a new battery because your old one isn't good anymore.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#173

Post by prmoustache »

saxonww wrote: post #148
chongli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

I wonder about this. First, it seems like you could just make the phone part waterproof and if they dunk it, they have to replace the battery. I have ruined a phone by putting it through the wash, and I would have been very happy to just replace the battery instead of chucking the phone. Beyond that, I wonder what the reality is for waterproofing needs. Are people taking smartphones diving? IP65 means it's resistant…

Most waterproof norms are only valid for freshwater. Most usb/lightning ports rust after being subjected to salted water and you end up not being able to charge your device anymore.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#175

Post by deelowe »

Draiken wrote: post #149
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

It's hard to see it happening with how things work today. If companies had to do this they would make an effort to figure it out.

How? How exactly would they figure it out? As someone who works in hardware development full time, often supporting older hardware, I don't see how this is feasible. Most of the IP we work on requires 3 or more parties to be part of the NDA.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#176

Post by hamandcheese »

deelowe wrote: post #120
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

If we are talking about making new laws, why not just modify the law to exclude firmware from any IP protection. i.e. compel disclosure of the firmware, and also ensure the device manufacturer is protected from any lawsuits arising out of such disclosure.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#177

Post by jupp0r »

This is stupid. Battery lifetimes has come a long way (1000-2000 cycles are the norm) and will improve in the future. Devices are much denser and are waterproof. There are trade offs and customers have chosen to favor designs that do not require easily replaceable batteries. I wouldn't want to pay the price for having one.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#178

Post by snuxoll »

chongli wrote: post #56
unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

My GoPro's are waterproof yet they have removable batteries. It's not impossible, but it does mean they have to be every so slightly thicker.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#179

Post by cptaj »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Its a good precedent to have. There are solutions to the software issue you mention. They're not perfect but for some hardware, they do work.

If the software problem ever gets solved, you WILL want to be able to replace the batteries won't you? You can and should fight both battles since they serve the same purpose.

The precedent is also good for devices other than phones.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#180

Post by JohnFen »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

> Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device?

I agree with what you say, but even phones I had that became unsupported and I couldn't replace the OS in didn't become useless. They still worked.

A user-replaceable battery would be useful for them as well.

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