George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf • Hacker News Board

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#571

Post by soperj » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

fumblebee wrote: post #547

soperj wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that the genocides that Britain enacted were just accidents? I think you're the one who is ignorant here. You realize that the British expressly didn't want to help the Jews in the concentration camps (of which they were fully aware) because they were afraid that they would go to Palestine after the war (British Territory), and cause an issue. So they purposefully let them die.

While the U.K. and its allies may have been aware of the Holocaust prior to the end of the war, there wasn’t exactly a lot they could do; they were already at war with the Nazis. Provocative and bold statements like yours require robust and trustworthy sources. Please provide. Your replies and original comment so far have read like you have an anti-British agenda.

It's not anti-british, it's just the truth, there are tons of trustworthy sources if you care to find them. You'll be more likely to believe them if you find them yourself. I doubt you really care though. Your replies and comments on other articles seem very pro-British.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#572

Post by moffkalast » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

eggsmediumrare wrote: post #491

moffkalast wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a job can be done by a starship robot then it's not much of a job then is it? In the short term it's more productive and admirable than being unemployed but in the long run it won't be much different.

Code monkey is arguably on that list.

Yeah give copilot another decade of development and it should be able to replace a junior dev for sure.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#573

Post by galaxyLogic » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 10:06 PM UTC

Akronymus wrote: post #534

galaxyLogic wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure Germany's condition was very exceptional. (What about Italy?) It was more that Nazis simply got into power and once they were in power it was no longer a question of whether the average German accepted it or not. And once Nazis were in power they had the propaganda machinery of the state to make people believe them. It could happen here too, almost did on January 6th. And in Russia, it's a crime to criti…

> It was more that Nazis simply got into power They got helped quite a bit by fighting communists at the time. They legit were the lesser evil to a lot of people.

I would say "communists" were just fascists by another name. The distinguishing factor is does one support democracy, or not.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#574

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 11:13 PM UTC

psi75 wrote: post #165

landryraccoon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, war is simply fun. Well an idealized version of war that’s designed to glorify it could be fun. Is actual war fun? Is the Ukraine war fun? I doubt it’s fun for any of the participants. It’s not fun for Ukrainian soldiers, it’s not fun for Russian soldiers, and it’s not fun for Russian or Ukrainian civilians. Maybe it’s fun for some onlookers that like to cheer and spectate, but I would argue that speaks more to…

> Is actual war fun? Is the Ukraine war fun? I doubt it’s fun for any of the participants. It’s not fun for Ukrainian soldiers, it’s not fun for Russian soldiers, and it’s not fun for Russian or Ukrainian civilians. War seems to rewrite the brain. People are miserable and bored most of the time, are terrified while in combat, and come back with psychological issues we're still just beginning to understand. It's hell.…

[deleted]

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#575

Post by nl » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 12:28 AM UTC

avodonosov wrote: post #476

lovecg wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Battle of Britain is generally accepted to have had a peace treaty with Britain as a (failed) strategic objective, thus putting it “out of the picture”.

I've read, the Battle of Britan can indeed be called a failed attempt to conquer Britan. Althouhg not ended with a peace treaty, wikipedia even says: "Hitler believed that the United Kingdom's refusal to end the war was based on the hope that the United States and the Soviet Union would enter the war against Germany sooner or later." - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II So I am not sure it is really "out of…

The prescience of Orwell's comment is that "Russia's turn would come" rather than any semantics about exactly what "England is out of the picture" meant.

Germany and Russia were in a military alliance and were dividing Poland between them when Orwell wrote that.

So yes, it was very prescient.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#576

Post by thrown_22 » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 1:06 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #389

thrown_22 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Queen Victoria has a death count much higher than Hitlers. Something quite impressive considering the world had a quarter the population of 1940 when she started.

Factually correct, but as head of state her direct impact on policy was minor - I'm not aware of her dismissing governments of whose policies she disapproved, for example. Accepting the fruits of imperialistic tyranny is morally culpable, but it's also a systemic problem, distinctly different from the active application of executive power.

There is no evidence Hitler was at all involved with the execution of the holocaust either.

Funny how you're holding one responsible for the crimes of their regime and the other was a figurehead. The moral of the story is don't lose a world war if you've committed genocide.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#577

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 1:48 AM UTC

swayvil wrote: post #108

_Algernon_ wrote: post #4

The top comment points out that a part is redacted, removing "I should like to put it on record that I have never been able to dislike Hitler. Ever since he came to power - till then, like nearly everyone, I had been deceived into thinking that he did not matter - I have reflected that I would certainly kill him if I could get within reach of him, but that I could feel no personal animosity.". This Gutenberg version…

I can't believe they flagged and censored my reply, which addressed that point of censorship. Are these people irony-proof?

If you mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32127971: users flagged that. It was an unsubstantive, flamey comment on an inflammatory topic—indeed the mother of all inflammatory internet topics—so I'd say they were right to do so.

I don't see irony there. Plenty of low-value comments going on about "censorship" get rightly flagged. Indeed, if they didn't, that would be a loophole anyone could drive a truck through.

Incidentally, would you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. You've unfortunately done it a lot, and we've had to ask you several times to stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#578

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 1:49 AM UTC

thrown_22 wrote: post #576

anigbrowl wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factually correct, but as head of state her direct impact on policy was minor - I'm not aware of her dismissing governments of whose policies she disapproved, for example. Accepting the fruits of imperialistic tyranny is morally culpable, but it's also a systemic problem, distinctly different from the active application of executive power.

There is no evidence Hitler was at all involved with the execution of the holocaust either. Funny how you're holding one responsible for the crimes of their regime and the other was a figurehead. The moral of the story is don't lose a world war if you've committed genocide.

> There is no evidence Hitler was at all involved with the holocaust either.

There's considerable evidence he was, actually.

> Funny how you're holding one responsible for the crimes of their regime and the other was a figurehead.

It's almost like a head of state and a combined executive head of government and head of state are different things.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#579

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 1:51 AM UTC

We belatedly changed the URL from https://bookmarks.reviews/george-orwells-1940-review-of-mein... to a copy of Orwell's text that doesn't shamelessly bowdlerize him. I mean, really—Orwell?

I'm referring to the omission of this passage: "I should like to put it on record that I have never been able to dislike Hitler. Ever since he came to power—till then, like nearly everyone, I had been deceived into thinking that he did not matter—I have reflected that I would certainly kill him if I could get within reach of him, but that I could feel no personal animosity.

... that several commenters pointed out:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32135108

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32133675

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32130897

All: in the future, if you run across something like this, could you please send us a heads up at hn@ycombinator.com? We can't read all the articles or comments, but we do read all the emails, usually within a few hours. We will be especially grateful if you point out a flaw as massive as this one.

Edit: I couldn't resist diffing the bowdlerized text with the gutenberg.net.au one and the eliding of that bit is the only difference between the two, other than punctuation.

Edit 2: it turns out that bookmarks.reviews is guilty only of blogspam. They got the thing from https://www.openculture.com/2014/08/george-orwell-reviews-me..., which links to https://carnegiecouncil-media.storage.googleapis.com/files/v... (via https://boingboing.net/2014/08/17/orwells-review-of-mein-kam...). That looks like a decades-old copy of the 1968 edition, edited by Orwell's widow. I doubt that it was she who dropped that sentence—I bet it was whoever reprinted the essay. Considering that Orwell specifically wrote "I should like to put it on record", that took some brass, or lack of it.

The degree to which Orwell practiced intellectual honesty is an endless marvel. If there's one thing we should learn from anybody, it's that from him.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#580

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 1:52 AM UTC

avodonosov wrote: post #460

helloworld11 wrote: post #414

>Probably, in Hitler's own mind, the Russo-German Pact represents no more than an alteration of time-table. The plan laid down in Mein Kampf was to smash Russia first, with the implied intention of smashing England afterwards. Now, as it has turned out, England has got to be dealt with first, because Russia was the more easily bribed of the two. But Russia's turn will come when England is out of the picture—that, no…

You mean Hitler really turned to Russia after he defeated England?

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html