George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf • Hacker News Board

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#31

Post by shrimp_emoji » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #15

pydry wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

A big part of early 20th-c. sociology was specifically concerned with their equivalent of "elite overproduction". The problem as they saw it was not so much "losers" in anything like an objective sense, but aspiring elites who viewed themselves as oppressed losers out of a misguided sense of entitlement.

>aspiring elites who viewed themselves as oppressed losers out of a misguided sense of entitlement.

Yep, sounds like the disaffected white males who kill others or themselves in droves, despite often having better conditions than (less aspirant/entitled) non-white males.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#32

Post by dcolkitt » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

superb-owl wrote: post #9

> Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice This fact has been the downfall of every utopian ideology, and ignoring creates a vacuum that fascist regimes readily fill. I wonder what…

The counterpoint is that regional support for the Nazis generally indicates the opposite. Their weakest electoral performance was in the West and South, which generally was the wealthiest and most liberal part of Germany. By contrast their base of support was the Prussian hinterlands which was already the most militaristic part of the country to begin with, as well as having a weak region economy.

I think it’s under-appreciated how much the rise of the Nazis was a direct result of Germany’s loss in World War One. It’s hard to overstate how central the prestige of the military was to the national consciousness of the German Empire. The failure of the military was largely internalized as a failure of German culture itself.

The Nazis offered a do-over, revisionist view of World War One, and a promise to restore Germany’s traditional militaristic prestige. (Not to mention being directly astroturfed by the old guard of the General Staff.) German liberals were more than happy with “comfort and safety”. It was the traditionalists stuck in the pre-liberal past that dragged the country into “struggle and self-sacrifice”

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#33

Post by bitwize » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

> The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something,

LEGO® Minifigs?

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#34

Post by wffurr » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

Stardew Valley has the monsters in the mines. I thought it would have been a cute farming simulator game to play with my toddler, but shortly after we discovered the mines it was all he wanted to do.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#35

Post by xg15 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

superb-owl wrote: post #9

> Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice This fact has been the downfall of every utopian ideology, and ignoring creates a vacuum that fascist regimes readily fill. I wonder what…

it might be a start to actually archieve "comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense" for all. Then we can see if they still want struggle and self-sacrifice.

There may be some dispositions of the human mind that are susceptible to this sort of thing, but for now, I find it somewhat remarkable that this supposed need for struggle and self sacrifice is almost always employed by classes in power to keep lower classes at bay. Hitler is no exception:

> He had crushed the German labour movement, and for that the property-owning classes were willing to forgive him almost anything.

This stuff seems less like a "science of discontent" and more like a "science of distraction" to me. As in: let them argue about race, gender, religion, patriotism and whatever else as long as they don't argue about classes.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#36

Post by ant6n » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

Duplo, Lego, Brio

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#37

Post by thrown_22 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

alangibson wrote: post #21

Avicebron wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you inherently ascribe it to "male loser" vs. just "loser"?

How many female dictators or mass shooters are you aware of?

Queen Victoria has a death count much higher than Hitlers. Something quite impressive considering the world had a quarter the population of 1940 when she started.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#38

Post by Latty » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

You see a lot of children playing Minecraft, or when older, Factorio on pacifist modes where they can focus on "the good bit" of building something. Historically war management was what was available, I remember enjoying building a city in Age of Empires more than the battles, and I think with the options available, while combat will always be popular and engaging, it does have alternatives some people enjoy more.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#39

Post by zozbot234 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

tomkat0789 wrote: post #30

I think he highlights some fundamentally toxic aspects of human nature with this bit: “The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won’t do.” The engineer in me wishes we could substitute the soldiers with construction workers or something, but I can’t deny enjoying war games growing up. These da…

Kids just don't know any better. I would imagine that those who actually spent some of their childhood in a war zone would have a very different perspective. What's toxic is when grownups end up glorifying war or thinking of it as a solution to hard problems.

Re: George Orwell’s 1940 Review of Mein Kampf

#40

Post by tacitusarc » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I think the driving desire for purpose is not exclusive to delivery drivers without girlfriends. Fascism is compelling because it seems to fill that void. The power element is simply a byproduct. This is also why all ideologies which purport to offer meaning struggle to coexist with other ideologies with the same goal.