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More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

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Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#571

Post by rootsudo »

emaginniss wrote: post #516
rootsudo wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised at all - people with degrees try to find reasons to think they're better then the rest. 1. Many trades also are your own business, and can immediately scale for income - many plumbers, electricians, etc are millionaires with a small team of employees less than 15. 2. Google offers free marketing certification for this reason as well, it's not impossible for marketing/seo people to make 100k annually…

You're way off on 3. You're saying that tuition alone at a state school costs $45k per semester, which would be $90k per year. This site says that the average in-state public school is ~$25k all-in for a year. That includes tuition, room and board, books and transportation. https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c...

That is not accurate at all

https://admission.ucla.edu/tuition-aid/tuition-fees 56k 9 months.

https://www.ohio.edu/financial-aid/cost

34k 9 months

9 months is considered 2 semesters.

per semester.

wouldn't consider ohio personally though. but beats your average by a good 30%. Not sure where it can get cheaper than Ohio.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#572

Post by BigRedDog1669 »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #535
endisneigh wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im very skeptical of this post: 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. In addition many are not welcoming to women at all, regardless even if you take the highest paying trades, do they pay more than the highest paying careers that require higher education? 2. Which boot camp? How many people ended up like your daughter? How much was it? Without these facts no compari…

What? you slam that post for not supplying the information and yet state >[trades] are not welcoming to women at all / last time I looked at ANY trade, they are begging women to come WORK. Maybe that's what you meant though

What do you mean by "last time I looked at ANY trade, they are begging women to come WORK."? By looking at trades, do you mean look at a website claiming to want women to work in them? The PR/advertising spins on jobs don't always align with the working conditions driving anyone with standards or a family away. See how "essential" workers have been treated during the pandemic. If you listen to the radio, they are being begged to work. But that work is conditional on bad pay and conditions often.

Edit: I'm not trying to claim there aren't good trades, just that the "word on the block" about how easy it is to get a job doesn't always reflect reality.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#573

Post by subsubzero »

RC_ITR wrote: post #480
silisili wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 1, at least in the US, it's very dependent on market and path. I have two family members who have been pipefitters for 20 years. Both make more than I do as a software engineer. Another is a doctor, and makes more than they do. But another does boat repair, and makes more than the doctor. If the last decade is any indication, skilled labor - especially those not afraid to own their own business, are set to make a…

It's kind of a political meme that welding is the key to everyone getting a middle class lifestyle, because good welders get paid a good amount. The joke ofc being that there is a 'shortage' of welders because it's actually very hard to become a good welder. If, somehow, we got a bunch of people to become really good welders, it would just go to being a low paid profession.

its very hard to be become a good welder and it usually takes about a decade to master that craft, so 10 years gone. Very similar to medical school except you are making money during that decade instead of paying it to schools and residency.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#574

Post by geodel »

zebraflask wrote: post #468
endisneigh wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im very skeptical of this post: 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. In addition many are not welcoming to women at all, regardless even if you take the highest paying trades, do they pay more than the highest paying careers that require higher education? 2. Which boot camp? How many people ended up like your daughter? How much was it? Without these facts no compari…

I think #1 needs to factor in cost of living. In many urban areas, 45K is near or even below the poverty level for a single worker.

Well , one thing to consider is who more likely need to stay in urban area. I think it is required more for college educated compared to tradespeople.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#575

Post by Miraste »

silisili wrote: post #471
endisneigh wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im very skeptical of this post: 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. In addition many are not welcoming to women at all, regardless even if you take the highest paying trades, do they pay more than the highest paying careers that require higher education? 2. Which boot camp? How many people ended up like your daughter? How much was it? Without these facts no compari…

Re 1, at least in the US, it's very dependent on market and path. I have two family members who have been pipefitters for 20 years. Both make more than I do as a software engineer. Another is a doctor, and makes more than they do. But another does boat repair, and makes more than the doctor. If the last decade is any indication, skilled labor - especially those not afraid to own their own business, are set to make a…

This is why the GP linked a source with the national average for college graduates and non-grads. Certainly there are tradespeople who make a ton of money, but usually they make less than degree holders.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#576

Post by subsubzero »

tempest_ wrote: post #542
indymike wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. I'm not sure what you mean by limited window unless we are talking about professional athletes and some categories of manual laborers. > In addition many are not welcoming to women at all, regardless even if you take the highest paying trades This is rapidly changing. Also, there are also skilled trades that are mostly women (e…

With regards to 1 A lot of the trades are hard on your body. By the time you are 45-50 your knees could be wrecked and that makes it hard to do service work like electric/HVAC. There are an argument that desk work isnt healthy either but that is a different discussion.

alot of engineers(and other tech employees) are forced out of the field due to ageism by 45-50 so its a wash.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#577

Post by jokethrowaway »

scruple wrote: post #383
granshaw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the social stigma of not having a college degree. Not sure how to fix that

I'm in my early 40s. I dropped out of university. I've been programming professionally, in a wide range of contexts and in various industries and niche markets, for over 15 years. I still deal with the stigma associated with not having a college degree. It's not as frequent today as it was when I was at year 1-5, but it still comes up often enough that I get the sense it will never go away.

Maybe it's just your social circle. Nobody likes university in mine - and in the last 15 years no company I worked in required a degree. I met a few CTOs (in real companies, not startup "CTOs" with 3 engineers) without degrees.

I took my degree in CS while I was working (lots of sleepless nights and ill prepared exams) and just because I didn't want to preclude myself from the opportunity of working for some big company with antiquated requirements.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#578

Post by henrikschroder »

How come none of the top comment threads talk about what a complete joke university education is currently due to ridiculous corona restrictions?

Everyone is vaccinated, everyone is boosted, everyone wears their little masks, and they're still going remote, quarantining, and forbidding students from doing pretty much anything except sit in their dorms and watch remote teaching material.

Is it any wonder that a lot of students walk away? Everything that makes college fun is forbidden. Why the hell would you put up with that? If I want to sit in my room, not party, and watch education videos all day, why would I pay $50k for the privilege?

This is bullshit, and students aren't idiots, which is why a lot of them are dropping out and postponing their education until universities get their shit together.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#579

Post by jokethrowaway »

scruple wrote: post #566
j4yav wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious how it comes up? I’m 42 and dropped out at 16, and it has just never come up, nobody has ever asked me once. I’m not doubting your experience, just curious where our paths differed since it’s such a stark contrast. I’m not a programmer but worked in ops, then product management, then CPO. Maybe it’s something to do with that?

I'm a Senior II and tech lead at work and I've always been on the programming track. Around ~22 months ago, I had a cold call from someone in HR asking me, "Did you finish your degree?" It was unusual. I'm not sure where they got the idea that I was "working on it" in the first place. This was happening around the same time that we had been acquired, so I imagine that it was related. More recently, around the end of…

I wouldn't call it stigma then.

Sure, it may rarely come up in discussions but it doesn't imply someone is inferior to someone else.

The kind of people who believes formal education trumps everything are not in touch with the reality of education.

You probably did way more learning in your professional career than most graduates do during their degree.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#580

Post by sjostrom7 »

rurp wrote: post #499
indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

> kids that had a job, any job before age 18 make 35% more than their peers over their lifetime regardless of degree. I'm surprised by the magnitude but I can see why this would be the case. Working teenagers probably correlate with having parents who value work. Plus it teaches some valuable skills early on. An entry level job can throw all sorts of uncomfortable challenges at you, which you are expected to handle i…

You're probably also more able to work if your folks make enough money to have a stay-at-home parent (so you don't have to watch your younger siblings), buy you a car to get back and forth from your job, etc. Without seeing how they actually did this study, I'll go ahead and chalk most of this up to generational privilege.
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