More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years • Hacker News Board

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#441

Post by paulpauper » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

ozzythecat wrote: post #347

paulpauper wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you have a lot of kids who don't think that taking on tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars in debt is worth it for some Zoom classes. Yeah, but you are assuming people only go to college for its educational value , ignoring that college grads tend to have much higher wages and lower unemployment compared to high school grads. If you look at FIRE subs for example, almost everyone who attains ear…

You’re implying causation - that a college degree is the cause of these outcomes. I’m not convinced that’s true, and in my mind, it might be one of the most damaging beliefs. It could be that people who are driven or passionate, on average, want to pursue higher education, or that they take on risks, exercise their brains in learning endeavors, and it’s their effort and drive that leads to success. It’s entirely poss…

This may be true, but at the same time, if the goal is to make a lot of money, rich parents and other luck aside, a college degree in a high-paying major is probably the best shot at it, instead for example trying to copy Garry Vanverchuck or Steve Jobs. Drive and effort apply for all professions, but it's just that college grads will get a higher return for their effort.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#442

Post by rdtwo » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

bargle0 wrote: post #297

VikingCoder wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I don't get - Where the hell is the money _going_? Are Colleges and Universities pocketing the money? Are they publicly traded and distributing dividends? Are they building rockets? I know some of it goes back to financial aid, and some goes to football coaches... But we're talking about so much freaking money, and I just can't visualize where it's going.

Administration salaries and buildings. Just because that new building cost $200M, it doesn’t mean the guy’s name who’s on it donated all of that. Where football coaches have very large salaries (EDIT: compared to peer schools), those salaries are paid by athletic department revenue and boosters.

The guy probably did donate all of that but keeping these buildings open running and maintained with university maintenance workers is expensive as heck

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#443

Post by jxramos » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

We have a family member who's decided to sit this quarter out, they sat last quarter out too. I'm curious how universities are juggling the leaves, I know they always permitted limited leaves but the must be facilitating the process to some degree I'd think.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#444

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

Im very skeptical of this post:

1. Many trades also pay like crap and have a very limited window in which you can do it. In addition many are not welcoming to women at all, regardless even if you take the highest paying trades, do they pay more than the highest paying careers that require higher education?

2. Which boot camp? How many people ended up like your daughter? How much was it? Without these facts no comparison can be made.

3. Some colleges perhaps, smart people can get full scholarships and even without that community college plus a cheap state school isn’t expensive. Link to your study? Did these people not go to college?

4. As you’ve already demonstrated college is hardly required let alone loans.

I’m surprised this is the top post.

Average College grads make more money over their lifetime, period.

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2011/c...

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#445

Post by ptero » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

One big issue with making a no-college a viable option is that in the US the school education is absolutely atrocious. In many colleges the first year of science or engineering degree classes focus on providing a decent background that should have been taught at schools.

This needs to be fixed for the school-only path to be viable.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#446

Post by sAbakumoff » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

notreallyserio wrote: post #77

qlm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think expletives are a sign of poor education? How dull.

Yeah, when combined with the bad spelling and grammar.

Dude I am not a native English speaker and I don't give a flying fck about spelling and grammar and people complaining about it.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#447

Post by teawrecks » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #437

granshaw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the social stigma of not having a college degree. Not sure how to fix that

Let's start with having the President not pledging for "college for all" https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2017/01/17/obama...

Meanwhile in most of Europe, college is free. I wonder how their attendance rates have fared in comparison.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#448

Post by rPlayer6554 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #361

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

There aren't colleges problem. Its coincidence that for the last 60 years people felt like they needed college, while colleges insist that people want to be there for obscure higher education for the sake of pursuing obscure higher education. Turns out this was true for hundreds of years before inclusion was even a concept, and will exist for the next hundreds of years as people find another option.

The colleges were willing to jack up the price to take advantage of the government giving out loans. They are a major part of the problem as well.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#449

Post by abeppu » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

The bizarre thing with higher education costs that no one's really explained to me is why schools simultaneously spend more and more on administrators (who are full time staff), and push more and more teaching to adjuncts. The claim I've heard justifying the growth of administration staff is that regulatory compliance becomes more onerous over time. But no school is judged on their regulatory compliance. In industry, we often want to make sure that the core value is staff, and stuff that you have to do but won't distinguish you, you may as well contract out. So why aren't administrative compliance obligations contracted out to some overseas firm?

We've gotten to the point where it would actually be cheaper for students to hire their own adjunct to each them 1:1, than to go to some universities.

Updating with numbers:

- USC tuition is >$60k/yr

- Adjunct professors in CA apparently earn $34-$43k/yr

https://admission.usc.edu/learn/cost-financial-aid/

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/adjunct-pr...

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#450

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #409

starwind wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There shouldn't be a divide between skilled trades and bachelor's degrees. If I could add a creative writing minor to math degree, why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school?

Because the AMT course is typically 24 months long by itself (for a combined airframe and powerplant certificate)? It’s 30 months of relevant, supervised maintenance work experience or a qualified AMT school program, which are often 24 months full-time. That’s far more time than a typical creative writing minor.

You've not really addressed the spirit of the question, they're not asking about aircraft maintenance really, they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed?

I guess in the UK you'd try for an apprenticeship with day release to college for the academic elements (or take a job in a technical field and do an Open University or other distance learning course for the academic side?).