YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#571

Post by cloudfifty » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #557

cloudfifty wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of where this belief is expressed? Because the common trope afaik is "From each according to his ability , to each according to his needs". What would be the difference in public policy anyways if after-the-fact results differ?

Well, some public policy differences would be continuing to invest ever increasing amounts of money on the worst performers in schools in an attempt to get them up nearer the average. Another might be seeing the lack of women plumbers (or whatever) and deciding that this is both bad and fixable and investing a bunch of money into advertising how awesome plumbing is to girls in school.

> Well, some public policy differences would be continuing to invest ever increasing amounts of money on the worst performers in schools in an attempt to get them up nearer the average.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that we, as a society, should not invest in worst performers? How would we even know beforehand? And how would withdrawing such funding from "bad" schools not affect the opportunity of all of the children of that school?

What's your point about the gender ratios of certain occupations? That it's a waste of money to try to alter?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#572

Post by concordDance » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

cloudfifty wrote: post #571

concordDance wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, some public policy differences would be continuing to invest ever increasing amounts of money on the worst performers in schools in an attempt to get them up nearer the average. Another might be seeing the lack of women plumbers (or whatever) and deciding that this is both bad and fixable and investing a bunch of money into advertising how awesome plumbing is to girls in school.

> Well, some public policy differences would be continuing to invest ever increasing amounts of money on the worst performers in schools in an attempt to get them up nearer the average. I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that we, as a society, should not invest in worst performers? How would we even know beforehand? And how would withdrawing such funding from "bad" schools not affect the opportunity of all of…

I'm not actually advocating for this here. Just pointing out potential policy differences that come from a non-equality worldview.

I don't have the time to give an in depth discussion on education etc the attention it would need.

Though to elaborate on the education policy difference, you can invest variable amounts into the bottom performers, even eventually giving up on them. As I understand it, schools currently have various legal obligations towards students that lead to them spending disproportionate resources on the least performant.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#573

Post by KozmoNau7 » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 8:16 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #558

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be other factors at play, because pre-pandemic I attended several live music events every month, a lot of them small Of course, all venues make sure to have outside areas for smoking, because that's the sensible thing to do.

Okay, I'm going to ask "Where?" because my musician friends probably want to move there once Covid is done. Although, if you say Nashville or New York, you're not helping--those are mega anomalies and all the musicians are already there which makes the situation untenable. Side Note: WTF, people? Why downvote this person?

Denmark, but it goes for most of Europe in general, at least the places I've been. Any city over a certain size will have a bunch of small venues, and the laws against smoking indoors are EU-wide.

However, I am concerned that a lot of these smaller venues and promoters will struggle to survive the pandemic lockdowns, unless our governments pull themselves together and support cultural venues, instead of focusing so hard on sports. Culture isn't just something you play with a ball :-)

As for the downvotes, probably general disagreement or spillover from other discussions where someone has taken offense to what I wrote.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#574

Post by cloudfifty » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #572

cloudfifty wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, some public policy differences would be continuing to invest ever increasing amounts of money on the worst performers in schools in an attempt to get them up nearer the average. I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that we, as a society, should not invest in worst performers? How would we even know beforehand? And how would withdrawing such funding from "bad" schools not affect the opportunity of all of…

I'm not actually advocating for this here. Just pointing out potential policy differences that come from a non-equality worldview. I don't have the time to give an in depth discussion on education etc the attention it would need. Though to elaborate on the education policy difference, you can invest variable amounts into the bottom performers, even eventually giving up on them. As I understand it, schools currently h…

Even with accepting that rather cynical view, I don't understand how you could even accurately determine who is a "hopeless bottom performer" without at the same time removing peoples equal opportunity.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#575

Post by loco5niner » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #9

andrewzah wrote: post #5

“ The researchers now suggest that social-media platforms should incorporate chess language in their algorithms to avoid future incidents like this.” Or maybe don’t automate banning YouTube channels via nebulous black boxes? Or can advertisers stop being afraid of anything and everything?

Your comment has been moderated for racist language ("black boxes").

At least he didn't use the term "black hole" in front of commissioner John Wiley Price.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc

Can't make this stuff up.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#576

Post by Sebb767 » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #313

Sebb767 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 500 * 60 * 24 * 365 = 262800000 hours per year / 1.3x playback speed / 2,000 hours of work per person per year = ~101,077 people to watch every uploaded video. When you have people watch the video at that fast speed and instantly make a decision, you might as well keep the algorithm - the failure rate won't be too different. Additionally, these people need holidays, managers, infrastructure and an actual flag will…

> See this case with FB, which was a human error: Reading the article, "human error" really isn't a reasonable description of what happened: > The Facebook furor began when the social network deleted the famous photo from Norwegian author Tom Egeland’s Facebook page, where it was part of a series of memorable wartime imagery. This could be a human error, sure. > When Egeland subsequently posted his shocked reaction t…

> Reading the article, "human error" really isn't a reasonable description of what happened:

I'm pretty sure to have read that the initial blocking was done by a contractor - I can find a better source, if you want.

> This is a (ridiculously severe) problem in several of Facebook's policies, not a classification error.

Yes, and that is exactly the point I tried to make:

>> changing the AI blackbox to an appeal-less human black box wouldn't improve the situation much

Said another way, having underpaid contractors with no time for consideration (and possibly strange policies) is exactly as bad. This is a pretty clear case: That photo should not have been blocked and the idea behind having a human do the evaluation is that he recognizes the historical relevance and, if not outright allowing it, at least consults the relevant authorities whether this is exempt. This could've been done by an AI all the way without a different outcome.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#577

Post by yellowapple » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #548

yellowapple wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube doesn't really fit the definition of a natural monopoly, particularly because there's nothing fundamentally stopping other services from popping up. YouTube's status as an effective monopoly doesn't come from some sort of scarcity of the means of production. > The cost to a competitor is in getting a user to switch. Only if we're assuming that users and uploaders will only ever use exactly one service at any…

Thing is that the free market approach just doesn't work in markets where there's only a few players and the cost of entering the market is extremely high. Simply there's no enough competition to make things actually competitive. That's why google provides no support and shuts down peoples accounts without warnings... they can, they just don't give a shit. They know they will not loose any clients over that, and in t…

> and the cost of entering the market is extremely high.

The cost to enter the video sharing market is extremely low, especially in this day and age where you can rent computing and storage capacity on the cheap around the world.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#578

Post by GFischer » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

andreynering wrote: post #10

I recently took some actions to reduce the damage if Google ever ban my account. I'm now using a custom email domain (although it's just redirecting to my Gmail for now), and doing regular backups of my emails (through Thurderbird) and Google Drive. With these news being more and more common, you never know when it'll happen to you.

I do that as well, but I'd still be extremely harmed if Google does ever decide to suspend service - I have an Android phone and a lot of things that are tied to that Google account.

Plus, my mail is sometimes caught by spam filters, and people actually find it very odd that I have my own domain (it is a plus for technical stuff though).

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#579

Post by onethought » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:31 AM UTC

Fogest wrote: post #553

onethought wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve got a pretty hostile nature to the way you reply to people. Facts actually always tell the story and the “why” is more facts as well.

The "why" can be more facts but it is not always. Sometimes people create opinions based on facts when a causation is not known. People also create factually incorrect opinions such as implying police are racist towards black people because they are arrested more. This is them deriving an opinion from a fact about incarcerations. Except the causation is already present, which is that lower income areas simply commit…

You clearly aren't out to have a productive conversation. You have an axe to grind on this issue.

I'll take your bait though, see how hard you believe these falsehoods.

Yeah, Police in the US (in some states at least) are racist, now I don't mean individuals necessarily, though I'm sure some are, but institutional (dare I say systemic) racism exists in the system. Incarceration rates are a good correlative bit of evidence, arrest rates, court dismissals for whites at a higher rate than blacks... like take your pick. No evidence (or fact) supports your position at all. Happy for your to bring the data to prove me wrong here.

You can hide behind economics if you like and try to argue "poor people commit more crime" - but then how do you explain incarceration rates of blacks given there are more poor white people than poor black people in the US?

You haven't illustrated any point. Just that you have opinions, with little fact, and seem triggered by people referencing white male privilege.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#580

Post by loco5niner » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #535

Minor49er wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So according to your link and yourself, a graduate degree may encompass both master's and doctoral degrees, which would only serve to obscure the meaning. Also, I don't think you intended it to be this way, but your inclusion of the pronunciation comes off as condescending.

I only included the pronunciation because you used a version of "graduate" in your original comment that has a different pronunciation and different meaning. (gra-jə-wāt vs. gra-jə-wət) > a graduate degree may encompass both master's and doctoral degrees, which would only serve to obscure the meaning. Nope, 99% of the time "graduate degree" == "master's degree". Usually "postgraduate degree" is used to refer to docto…

Sorry, but those are very ambiguous.