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Why do so few people major in computer science?

danwang.co

571–580 of 627 posts

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#571
I think it's a combination of a CS degree being slanted more toward research than preparation for a career as a software developer, and not everybody is cut out for it, temperamentally.

Particularly the latter. A lot of people break out in hives at the thought of spending the next forty five years glued to a computer monitor.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like the professor didn't teach them about Java classpath before telling them to use a CLI; or this kid didn't read the course materials.

Doesn't the Java processor tell you in the error message that it "can't find x in classpath" or whatever? Perhaps the lesson was "read the error message; if it doesn't help then take that as a call to produce useful errors in your own programs"?

Learning to read errors is itself a skill. The number of professional devs who ask questions of the form "I got this message what do I do" and the message itself tells them what to do is astonishing.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#573
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my professors actually made the opposite point: that in CS, the compiler will give you an error. You can fix it and move on to the next. While in math (he was a math prof), the paper doesn't object to your writing nonsense. If you have an error early on in your work, all the rest might be nonsense, and you only find out much later after a human grades it. tl;dr at least in CS you get immediate negative feedbac…

i sometimes wonder if a single line of code I wrote was ever run/checked by a TA or professor

I know for a fact mine weren't, because the profs tended to tell us so. Also, many of the academics could barely code themselves. Instead they found creative ways to set mark schemes such that the code didn't matter, even for programming assignments.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with this. The mass produced handheld computers such as smartphones and tablets, which outnumber desktops and laptops in personal ownership worldwide, will absolutely not help the newer generations with learning how computers work. When I was a tween I was building my own desktop, installing drivers, trouble shooting driver issues, trawling log files, and even dabbled in a little bit of python here or…

You forget that Arduino and Raspberry Pi exist now and fill that void quite nicely. If anything, I think it is far, far easier to learn the intangible CS skills today than at any time in the past. The one problem I see is with kids' motivation to do so, not with access to information or materials.

I think the subtlety is the change in defaults. Having access isn't even half the battle. Speaking from experience my motivation came from spending hundreds of hours making the only computer in my family work.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#575
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if you have been playing around with environment variables in your OS since you where 8 years old the problem becomes a lot easier to troubleshoot, compared to someone who has never heard of environment variables.

I'm a bit interested with your comment. Do we have 8 year olds playing around with environment variables in the OS? I'm curious because I never thought that could be possible

It was not uncommon to have to monkey with crap like that back in the DOS days, to do the most basic things. I vaguely remember having to fool around with autoexec.bat and play with virtual and extended memory settings to try and get Raptor: Call of the Shadows, Wolfenstein 3D or Warcraft: Orcs and Humans to load up and use the right colors on the family 586, when I was much too young to be playing such games - or really tweaking environment variables.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#576

I think the market is just way over saturated. Hiring practices for developers point to just that. I mentioned in a different thread how simole it is for my travel-nurse of a sister to get a new job (her stints around the Bay Area paid ~100k and she only has 2 years of experience). Developers jump through hoop after hoop for employment, this wouldn't happen if they were in demand like a nurse. The market is just resp…

I'm a freelancer/run-my-own small dev consultancy and I pretty much never jump through hoops. The level of demand doesn't create the hoops. Some combination of needing to create the appearance of "only hiring the best of the best of the best just like everyone else" & fear of a bad hire creates the hoops. I don't have trouble finding work and often need to bring on additional help. The hoops are cultural.

Yep and when my company gets contracts they don't jump through hoops either. Our sales team doesn't do white-board exercises for clients and neither do our engineers.

So what's your point? You are not a traditional employee. You are a company...it would be weird for them to make you jump through so many hoops.

Companies are treated better than employees in the market.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#577

I think the market is just way over saturated. Hiring practices for developers point to just that. I mentioned in a different thread how simole it is for my travel-nurse of a sister to get a new job (her stints around the Bay Area paid ~100k and she only has 2 years of experience). Developers jump through hoop after hoop for employment, this wouldn't happen if they were in demand like a nurse. The market is just resp…

I don't know what market you're in, but it's definitely hard to find good people in Silicon Valley. Most of the time my company finds one, they have multiple offers. It's also difficult to believe in an oversaturation of developers when their salaries are at record highs -- that only happens when demand increases relative to supply. There is no union, and minimum wage is nowhere near what developers are paid, so supp…

>minimum wage is nowhere near what developers are paid

Why would you compare developer salaries to minimum wage? You should be comparing them to the wages of doctors, lawyers, and CEO's.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#578
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 6 years I never thought of it that way! :) Thanks! Now I feel like an idiot.

Try "Trolling Euclid" book by Tom Wright, to understand why the Riemann Hypothesis is considered by many mathematicians to be the most important unsolved problem in mathematics today.

Will do, thanks!

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#579

I think the market is just way over saturated. Hiring practices for developers point to just that. I mentioned in a different thread how simole it is for my travel-nurse of a sister to get a new job (her stints around the Bay Area paid ~100k and she only has 2 years of experience). Developers jump through hoop after hoop for employment, this wouldn't happen if they were in demand like a nurse. The market is just resp…

Nurse is licensed though. That's instant credibility.

It's just as much credibility as any college degree in computer science. There are still lots of crappy nurses that are licensed.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#580

I think the market is just way over saturated. Hiring practices for developers point to just that. I mentioned in a different thread how simole it is for my travel-nurse of a sister to get a new job (her stints around the Bay Area paid ~100k and she only has 2 years of experience). Developers jump through hoop after hoop for employment, this wouldn't happen if they were in demand like a nurse. The market is just resp…

That seems to contradict the whole "there aren't enough devs" argument that seems to keep getting brought out to enact visa "reform"...

If anything, there aren't enough C-level folk. Low supply is why their wages are so inflated, we should be allowing H1B for CXO's.
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