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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#571

Post by flamedoge »

RodericDay wrote: post #514
ogezi wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.

I think they need to fail because the attitude needs to die. It's easier if they take it with them. They brought a very Wall Street-esque aggressively cheat your way into becoming too big to fail, at any cost attitude into software. They were chummy with top-dollar lobbyists to get around pesky small-town regulations and unions. Some of those entrenched interests were bad, but even in defeating them, they weren't pre…

Uber being too big to fail is delusion. Let the market work itself out.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#572

Post by Tycho »

It's a sign that the election hysteria is finally fading that we are back in the thrall of these corporate kiss-and-tell scandals and intrigues. Thank god.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#573

Post by laughinghan »

enraged_camel wrote: post #547
lr4444lr wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the OP's point stands generally: If this were a smear campaign by a competing company, how different would it look? I sympathize greatly with Ms. Fowler not least because she put her reputation out there and claimed to have documentation of the specific offenses, which a decently respectable journalism outfit like the NYTimes could fact-check. Fowler's story could be exaggerated, but I have reasonable doubt that…

These women are victims of harassment and abuse. It seems very unfair to expect them to also put their personal reputation on the line before we finally take them seriously. That's a very high bar to clear and it's the reason why so few women speak out publicly. That's why we must encourage, not discourage, anonymous disclosures, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

These are not mutually exclusive.

We can extend our hearts and offer our support to the anonymous authors of these stories, seriously investigate the questions they raise, and prosecute to our fullest abilities all wrongdoings substantiated by credible reports (e.g. Susan Fowler's blogpost), while simultaneously being careful to restrict any punishment meted out to be only based on credible evidence.

"Believe victims" means offer support instead of minimizing ("I'm sure he didn't mean it") or making counteraccusations ("what were you wearing?"). It doesn't mean "automatically, immediately punish anyone accused of anything without due process".

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#574

Post by lz400 »

mememachine wrote: post #472
xapata wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some behaviors are generally considered unethical, regardless of whether a victim complains. If you murder someone, that's (generally) unethical, even if the victim's family doesn't seem to mind. Saying the victim was too apathetic to care will not change the verdict. Sexual harassment in the workplace is unethical, even if the (wo)man pretends to like it.

Of course, and I don't disagree about any of this (nor does anything I have said so far). I think you're missing my point here. Also I'd appreciate a response in the other threads we have!

You are writing a lot of comments with apparently little relation to the case at hand but that hint that you are basically trying to blame the victim in the general case and then accusing everyone of misrepresenting you when they try to make sense of the mess you got yourself into. It's at best a dysfunctional conversation. I think all the comments and downvotes are sending you a clear message.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#575

Post by obstacle1 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #520
api wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor in Boston or the Los Angeles / Orange County area. I'm willing to believe it though. Far, far too many stories. I've also definitely seen it online in spades.

Replying to this comment, but this is in response to all the ancestors who have said they "haven't seen this in X area": If you're a man (or white, etc) then it makes sense that you don't see this firsthand. It doesn't happen to you. Not all workplace harassment is as egregious or public as the harassment in this article. I absolutely don't believe that this problem mainly affects the US.

>I absolutely don't believe that this problem mainly affects the US.

That's fine, as long as you understand that this is just a personal belief that you hold and not a fact about the world. Since it is just your unfounded belief, it doesn't detract from, devalue, or even argue mildly against the personal experiences outlined in the comments you are responding to.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#576

Post by Trundle »

UncleMeat wrote: post #481
lr4444lr wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the OP's point stands generally: If this were a smear campaign by a competing company, how different would it look? I sympathize greatly with Ms. Fowler not least because she put her reputation out there and claimed to have documentation of the specific offenses, which a decently respectable journalism outfit like the NYTimes could fact-check. Fowler's story could be exaggerated, but I have reasonable doubt that…

It just seems surprising to many of us that this skepticism only seems to crop up in situations surrounding racial or gender discrimination.

Skepticism and comments about skepticism don't necessarily need a linear relationship. Making a pro skepticism comment is a reactionary move against people treating anonymous accusations as fact. If you see more people doing the latter when racial or gender discrimination issues are discussed then it makes sense that the former will follow.

The more serious/terrible the accusation, the more likely it seems to me that people will just take it on face value.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#577

Post by mirimir »

ForHackernews wrote: post #434
uptownfunk wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I've watched too much Suits and The Good Wife, but it just seems that it's all futile. They're a huge corp, if you file suit against them they'll hit back harder with bigger and badder lawyers, and you either settle out of court, or play the lotto with the court system and try your hand at a judgement with whatever lawyers you can afford. It's really sad how stacked the odds seem.

Uber is sitting on billions of dollars of VC money. I'm sure that there are some very high-powered law firms out there salivating at the chance to represent these women in a class-action lawsuit. Maybe the victims won't get as much recompense as they deserve (because so much of the judgement will go to attorneys), but I would not be so sure that Uber will have them outgunned in court. At the very least, it could teac…

Costs and expenses (including experts) are typically only a few percent of recoveries. Unless recovery ended up being much smaller than expected, anyway. Fees over 20% require substantive justification.[0]

0) http://www.maglaw.com/publications/articles/00392/_res/id=At...

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#578

Post by lokedhs »

xapata wrote: post #406
aorloff wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. What I'm struck by in all this is that much of Uber's staff must be really junior. Not just the assholes at the center of these stories, but everyone else around these incidents. Which kind of contradicts the idea that they are a bunch of high performers.

I had much the same thought. It's far easier to death march the youth. Try the same management style on someone older and they'd simply quit.

Are there any avail statistics on their age distribution? Based on what I've read, it seems like people over 30 is in a minority, not to mention the impossibility to find anyone over 40.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#579

Post by st3v3r »

mpweiher wrote: post #123
MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems both women who've come forward would have open-and-shut cases against Uber for multi-millions in damages. Is it possible that their contracts are written in such a way as to preclude this? Which if so is gross and shouldn't be allowed by contract law IMO, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

I severely doubt such a contract would hold up in court.

The Ellen Pao case found that, at least in California, an arbitration clause did not hold up. Hence why, despite her employer having such a clause in her contract, she was still able to go to trial.
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