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Magnifica Humanitas

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Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#561

Post by Manuel_D »

mullingitover wrote: post #557
Manuel_D wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI wasn't demonized because it tried to fight bigotry. It demonized itself because it routinely became a dishonest two-faced movement that public denied to be discriminatory, but then privately implemented policies that explicitly discriminated on the basis of sex and gender. When your leaders publicly condemn the idea that your company is discriminating on the basis of sex, but then privately institutes a system of…

Can you cite any companies which violated federal labor law in this way?

Three out of the four companies I've worked at, for one.

YouTube was sued for directing one of its recruiters to exclusively advance diverse candidates for a period of time, and eventually settled with the recruiter [1].

Intel [2] and Microsoft [3] both tied specific percentage quotas to executive's compensation. If saying "reach this racial and gender quota or I'll penalize you financially" isn't discrimination, I'm not sure what is.

Perkins-Coie explicitly excluded applicants from its diversity fellowship program if they didn't meet certain racial, sexual orientation, or other requirements [4].

1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positio...

2. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-...

3. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-17/microsoft...

4. https://www.reuters.com/legal/second-major-us-law-firm-chang...

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#562

Post by iamacyborg »

gchamonlive wrote: post #492
iamacyborg wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how those virtues have changed over time and how badly behaved a large number of popes have been, yeah, no. The more cynical read is that the Papacy has for a very extensive period been about increasing the personal worldly power of the Pope and his close associates.

> Given how those virtues have changed over time Virtues change over time. You can't judge 16th century morals with our current view of virtues. > how badly behaved a large number of popes have been This is from our point of view. I think there should be legal guardrails so that gov and church don't mix, but this kind of moral separation is the kind of thing that created the conditions for the holocaust. Of course th…

> first they are deserving of some level or respect

Are they?

> because they have incentives that are different from our political leaders

Do they?

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#563

Post by hilariously »

Manuel_D wrote: post #550
mullingitover wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should just stop using the term DEI. It has been demonized in the common parlance so successfully Whatever term you pick to describe a concerted effort to overcome the tendency to bigotry, they'll just hijack that, too. There's a whole industry built around this, and the media is so receptive to the right-wing that they'll openly describe how they'll do it[1], will execute the plans in public, and the mainstream…

DEI wasn't demonized because it tried to fight bigotry. It demonized itself because it routinely became a dishonest two-faced movement that public denied to be discriminatory, but then privately implemented policies that explicitly discriminated on the basis of sex and gender. When your leaders publicly condemn the idea that your company is discriminating on the basis of sex, but then privately institutes a system of…

And those in power who went out of their way to demonize DEI, is that why they didn't like it? I would argue strongly that no, they had their priors already set, and anything help black people or poor people (the new proxy for hating black people) was bad and they'd lie through their teeth about the impact to get anyone on their side.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#564

Post by hammock »

bluesign wrote: post #245
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of rationalization of evil is a core of technocratic support for Trumpism, I find, and has parallels to the evangelical prosperity gospel. Choice tenets: - Fuck you, got mine - If I don’t do it, someone else will - Might makes right - Greed is good It’s always cloaked in a veil of realism, but it’s just the classic 14-year-old-boy-just-got-introduced-to-the-prisoners-dilemma situation. There’s nothing philo…

This was not my point at all. Maybe I could explained better, but main criticism I have is: you can bundle together objectives ( which are inherently good ) and create an utopia. But those cannot always be achievable. Everything in life in trade-offs. Simple example is speed/quality/cost. I can tell easily: - services should be cheap - services should be fast - services should be high quality Now I created an utopia.…

Your idea and its (perhaps unsatisfying to you) resolution can be summed up easily by John Quincy Adams’ quote:

“Duty is ours. Results are God's”

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#565

Post by sleight42 »

jdw64 wrote: post #248

>“technology is never neutral, because it takes on the characteristics of those who devise, finance, regulate, and use it,” If critical decisions affecting human life—such as hiring, lending, crime prediction, and welfare—are processed in an opaque black box, people will lose their fundamental right to explain their context or appeal against the machine's algorithmic verdicts

It speaks to changes here that this is so upvoted. Several years ago, I wrote something very similar. It was downvoted into oblivion.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#566

Post by michaelchisari »

jfengel wrote: post #23
bradrn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am immediately reminded of my favourite quote from the Jewish book Pirkei Avot (‘Ethics of the Fathers’): > It is not your duty to finish the work [of perfecting the world], but neither are you at liberty to neglect it. [ https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.2.16?ven=english|Mishnah... ]

I grew up Jewish. I have lost my faith, but that quote is still fundamental to how I see my place in the world.

I'm not Muslim (an agnostic Catholic if anything) but I love the Hadith

| If the final hour comes while one of you has a seed in his hand, if he can plant it before it takes place, let him do so.

I take it to mean it is never too late to do something good, even (or especially) something you will never benefit from.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#567

Post by oersted »

sethbannon wrote: post #22

The overarching message is that builders should deeply consider the impact of what they're building on civilization. "Technology is never neutral, because it takes on the characteristics of those who devise, finance, regulate and use it." Therefore builders "bear a particular ethical and spiritual responsibility" because "every design choice reflects a vision of humanity." The questions shouldn't just be 'can we buil…

I'd argue that the problem is exactly that the responsibility has been left to the builders, who have a hard enough job actually building and have little room for competing incentives.

The concept of a self-regulating industry is utter nonsense. I am a builder, and I try to do things right, but if I am honest with myself I do not have the mental capacity or willpower spare, or the worldly knowledge of everyone's perspectives, to manage these massive challenges. I need other smart people to also focus on that, people that are actual representatives of the population, and yes, force me to stop and do it better occasionally.

Achieving a good balance sometimes does require having opposing forces fight it out, it can be healthy.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#568

Post by ngcazz »

sethbannon wrote: post #22

The overarching message is that builders should deeply consider the impact of what they're building on civilization. "Technology is never neutral, because it takes on the characteristics of those who devise, finance, regulate and use it." Therefore builders "bear a particular ethical and spiritual responsibility" because "every design choice reflects a vision of humanity." The questions shouldn't just be 'can we buil…

Like glibly synthesizing a reimplementation of NextJS
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