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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#561
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that a good sniff-test in politics is to change the actor in a claim to be Jewish and then consider if that make the claim an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Works surprisingly well. For example: > facing an enemy [Hamas] who does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrati…

> Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrative, Your substitution turns a true statement into a false statement; this mechanism is at best meaningless. Yes, making false claims about Jews is antisemitic, but that has no bearing on statements that aren't false.

> Yes, making false claims about Jews is antisemitic

No. Making false claims about Jews is just lying about Jews.

Antisemitism deals in lies, but the defining characteristic of antisemitism is not the lie itself, it's the use of the lie to cast out the Jewish people from the circle of humans to make them into an outsider and threat to humanity itself. The lie is just a tool and it depends on the kind of lie.

> that has no bearing on statements that aren't false.

your assertion here is that the statement in question

> [Hamas] does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad

is true and not false.

What you are claiming it that Hamas is breaking a very fundamental rule of being human, in that they not only don't care about their own being killed but that they "do everything they can to get their own people killed."

Which is a standard propaganda tactic to assigning to you enemy the most depraved characteristics to convince your side that the enemy is not even really fully human.

It's a transparent and stupid tactic, and it begets hatred.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the hospitals are now rubble Hospitals may have been used for retaliation [0], but it is unclear how many & in what capacity (according to accepted conventions, using a hospital to treat wounded combatants wouldn't make it a valid military target, for example; but hiding weapons or personnel would). [0] One such recent report: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

Not sure I understand the mass downvotes on this one. I didn't take it as endorsing the action but summarizing the rationale.

many somewhat intellectual(1), but evil(2), people love to play make pretend of just "summarizing the rational", "playing devil advocate", "just pointing out facts" to endorse their word view while having "plausible deniability" if caught (as they tend to know many people think their ideas are evil).

Idk. if this is happening here but given how some threads devolved and other patterns common for such people emerged (red hearing arguments, false conclusions etc.) it looks quite a bit like it.

This kind people (the also tend to argue endlessly not based on common sense, understanding of the real world and empathy (in questions of ethic/moral) but based on nit picking stuff like as if the word ist just a game you find holes in the rules with to "cleverly win". Because for them the world often is just that.

But a lot of people find such behavior deeply deplorable. hence why if something looks like that it will get a lot of down votes even if it wasn't meant that way.

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(1): Non intellectual people try that too. But they tend to lack the skill to pull it off. Hence why it tends to be pretty obvious why they are down voted or similar.

(2): Non evil people do that too, they just normally have the decency not to do so with topics like genocide. I also use evil here as a over-generalization but I have mostly seen that behavior with neo-nazis and other groups which are least fascist adjacent (and most times outright fascist).

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#563
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Israeli Army dropped a small bomb on a house Roof knocking is using non explosive ordinance. It is, by definition, not a bomb. Attacking its use is wild, its a tactic that saves civilian lives, even if you disagree with the validity of the target. > that means you think that Hamas sent these people on the roof to let the Israeli army execute them, not even to use them as a human shield. Yes. That is what human…

I was going to write a whole different comment, but then I thought > What if, yosamino, your knowledge of the euphemism of knocking on a roof is outdated and this km3r is right? you should probably double check so that in case they are right, you are not having a stupid argument but one backed by facts. And then I found this hilarious quote: > As women and children lived in the house, a Hellfire missile was initially…

“Roof knocking” is when the IAF targets a building with a loud but non-lethal bomb that warns civilians that they are in the vicinity of a weapons cache or other target.

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/hamas/how-is-the-idf-minimi...

Non lethal not non explosive, I stand corrected. Now can you answer the question.

You even admit it's a smaller bomb than then say its double tapping? Those are two opposing things.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very thorough. Thanks for the direct link. The case seems pretty clear, especially since the soldiers tried to hide all evidence.

[flagged]

That's because it's not a war. It's a genocide. An occupied people have the right to resist their occupation. Occupiers do not have the right to prolong their occupation of said peoples. Israel is on the wrong side in all cases from its inception.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#565
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism has a simple definition: using force against civilian life to further ones goals. Target a music festival with no military value: terrorism. Blow up a building because hamas has a tunnel under there: not terrorism. If the military value gained is disproportionate to the civilian cost, it is a war crime. But still not terrorism.

> Terrorism has a simple definition: using force against civilian life to further ones goals. Not disagreeing with the definition but this is what both sides have been doing. Look, blowing up aid workers, which is in question in this article, is also terrorism. Killing unarmed civilians, kids, etc is also terrorist. Also if you you use your definition for what Israel has been doing in the last 70-80 years it makes th…

What political/ideological goal does attacking the aid workers move forward? It's a war crime, no doubt, but terrorism has a meaning that doesn't include all war crimes.

> Killing unarmed civilians, kids, etc is also terrorist.

The vast majority of lethal force actions in Gaza are targeting Hamas operations. Civilians getting killed by those strikes is NOT terrorism.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally raise awareness about Ukraine and Palestine in equal measure. But there is fundamental difference: Israelis will stop their violence on Palestinians the minute they lose support of the US and Europ, whereas the West doesn't hold the same leverage over Russia.

I disagree with many parts of this narrative, but even this fundamental hypothesis that Israel will just give up without Western support, that there is absolute leverage, I have no idea where it comes from or what evidence suggests this. If Israel feels they need to do this, they will just source supplies from somewhere else. And everyone will be worse off for it.

[deleted]

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why the Palestinians and allies are complaining. Their stated aim is the genocide of Jews and the destruction of Israel. That’s Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Yemen. And they’ve tried but are too incompetent to succeed. It's not like the other side is peaceful and wants to make love and fight war. Israel has been violently kicking out Palestinians from their lands for the past 70-80 years. Before that, among…

I feel like there were a few one sided wars we’re forgetting about… This is also a strange advocacy for British or Ottoman rule. Maybe you’re right, if the Israelies acted like their colonial forebears there would be less violence.

I think they could have done better but their interest is to drag it on and slowly take over the hole area (at whatever cost because somebody else pays) . Revisit who Yitzak Rabin was, who killed him and why. I'm so sick of financing this garbage through our taxes. I want our tax dollars to help out my nation not waste it on wars and enrich some psychopaths. If there was peace there we would be no need to create an Epstein though I admit I may be too naive in believing that.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#568
post #554

[dead]

This is reductive. All kinds of other countries do the same and the purpose is crystal clear. It isnt spying and killing without purpose.

I dont like it either and i didnt like back when it wasnt trendy to not like it. But it isnt pointless. They know what they are about.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#570
post #554

[dead]

This is reductive. All kinds of other countries do the same and the purpose is crystal clear. It isnt spying and killing without purpose. I dont like it either and i didnt like back when it wasnt trendy to not like it. But it isnt pointless. They know what they are about.

The arab states offered a peace plan in 2002 that would include full recognition in exchange of an end of the occupation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

At some point it becomes obvious that Israel (under the current government and political climate) doesn't want peace.

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