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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#561

Post by dbtc »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #466
dylan604 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of people absolutely unwilling to risk loosing their salary and career. If you are doxxed as the leaker, what other company would hire you? I'm not even considering if there could be criminal charges involved as well. Snowden left an example of what kind of lifestyle is possible after leaking, and I doubt snowflakes at FAANG would be down for that. Or how about other examples of leakers…

Snowden chose that lifestyle. If he had stayed in the US, he would be out of prison already, just without a security clearance. The longest sentence anyone ever got for leaking government information to the media is 63 months, with a release after 50 months on good behavior.

It's all speculation, but perhaps he was also thinking about how high his risk of 'suicide' would be.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#563

Post by drexlspivey »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

Did the US constitution protect you from NSA conducting mass surveillance on all US citizens like the Snowden files showed?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#564

Post by captainbland »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #557
botanical76 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My interpretation is that it is an argument against trust in authority in privacy discussions. A: Privacy matters! B: Why should you care if you have nothing to hide? A: If you have nothing to hide, then give me the password to your Facebook. B: I don't trust you with that, but I trust my governments and relevant authorities. The point is that B's faith in authority is flawed as the "powers that be" are an eternally…

I always look at this from the other side... Side A abuses (legal, governmental) power, and instead of "lynching" them for that, we turn the issue into "this will become bad only because of side B will do the same". To me it looks like someone supports side A, and wants to limit the "badness" of whatever they did, but still can't support the thing, so they find the way out by claiming that the other side will do some…

For what it's worth I don't support this Labour government one iota. I fully admit to being extremely biased against the Reform party, much in the same way that I'm biased against standing in front of a fully loaded 16 wheeler moving at 60mph.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#565

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

The complete lack of any kind of technological understanding by the people in power of most major governments is a huge existential risk. Thankfully businesses like Apple are completely staked on privacy, but Apple is actually big enough to give a middle finger to the UK. Other companies might not be able to.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#566

Post by ustad »

reaperducer wrote: post #470
altairprime wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government can’t put Apple out of business; Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK. The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds.

The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds. Three weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. Then Tim Cook wrote a check for $1,000,000.00 to help pay for Donald Trump's inauguration party.† In spite of what they led us to believe over the last couple of decades, Tim Cook and Apple are no different than any of the other tech companies genuflecting before the new emperor, whose stated goa…

For $1 million, you’re promised intimate access to Trump and his inner circle. This isn’t just about tradition or unity-it’s about buying influence and maintaining power. In a world where we’re supposedly pushing for fairness, equality, and transparency, this feels incredibly hypocritical. It’s as if we’re endorsing a system where money talks louder than public interest or ethical considerations. It makes you wonder where the line is between modern capitalism and a system that operates more like an oligarchy.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#567

Post by talldayo »

altairprime wrote: post #498
reaperducer wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds. Three weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. Then Tim Cook wrote a check for $1,000,000.00 to help pay for Donald Trump's inauguration party.† In spite of what they led us to believe over the last couple of decades, Tim Cook and Apple are no different than any of the other tech companies genuflecting before the new emperor, whose stated goa…

As Apple isn’t based in the UK and owes no fealty to their government. I don’t agree that your citation is relevant here. Apple is a US company. Bribing local officials to overlook the gay founder is sensible corporate practices, however uncomfortable that is to consider. Revoking privacy guarantees globally, reversing years of public opinion gains overnight, is not. The UK cannot do anything to materially harm Apple…

> As Apple isn’t based in the UK and owes no fealty to their government

Apple isn't based in China, they owe nothing to them either. Apple's willingness to backdoor and modify their services for actual authoritarianism is well[0] documented[1], at no point did they ever threaten to leave the respective markets. Every single spectator knows that Apple leaving these markets would be an admission of guilt.

> Bribing local officials to overlook the gay founder is sensible corporate practices

That hasn't been "sensible corporate practice" since American civil rights were instated. If that is the real motivation for Apple to pen their donation, it would be even more pathetic than a global encryption backdoor. It's not "uncomfortable" to consider, it's illegally discriminatory to a nonsense extent.

What both of you are overlooking, and clearly what this entire thing is about, is antitrust enforcement. Tim Cook knows that Apple cannot survive if they are investigated by a fair commission, so he's trying to manipulate Trump into dropping the DOJ's cases, giving Apple unfair advantages vis-a-vis China and pressuring the EU into stopping their regulation. This is literally surface-level stuff if you even remotely understand Apple's commitment to shareholders and what drives their hardware and software margins in 2025. Everything else is advertisement and a chasing after wind.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/1/22361762/iphone-russia-sta...

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#568

Post by mtillman »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

A backdoor for one is an opportunity for many. Given the UK is completely incapable of outspending most of the world on compute, this effectively hands their enemies that data they’re looking for.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#569

Post by trallnag »

Chance-Device wrote: post #210
negus wrote: post #174

Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-…

This is the way that the UK has passed laws for a while now, make them so broad that they potentially criminalise everyone, then selectively prosecute. This is a very obvious setup for future totalitarianism. I’m surprised that the British public stands for it, but I guess they must not care.

I'm not surprised at all

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#570

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

We are watching the redefinition of the idea of territorial sovereignty that emerged from the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. We in the US see our expectations of privacy shaped in the UK, and the reverse.
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