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CDC data are disappearing

theatlantic.com

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Re: CDC data are disappearing

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this data already inaccessible to those who are not tech savvy? My grandma isn’t visiting any of the data download sites provided by the federal government. She doesn’t even know why she would, or even that such data is available. And if I provide it to her, she hasn’t the skills to do anything with it.

It's a bit like asking whether road signs are effective for Americans who can't read. The signs are there for the people that are using the road, and if you're not using the road you can safely ignore it.

More like asking whether road signs are effective for Americans who are passengers in cars. No, it doesn't directly do her any good that they're technically accessible since she can't act on it, but it sure as hell affects her life that other people have access to the information provided by road signs.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#562
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made no statements.

They are saying it's likely illegal but it doesn't matter because the law does not apply to certain people. No consequences for illegal activity will ever touch Trump or Musk.

Well that is my opinion of the situation, but other people had already covered that well enough so I didn't feel the need to. I was curious about what thought process results in the assumption that what they're doing is legal, so I asked.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#563
post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Maybe its my bias showing through, but my memory of the last couple decades is largely an exercise in most people looking to outside authorities (governments, corporations, titled experts, etc) to fix problems rather than dealing with it individually.

Yes, it's your bias.

Well in an attempt to at least show where the bias, if that's what it is, comes from:

- Affordable Care Act - the entire Covid response - GDPR - the "TikTok Ban" act

To name a few, those are all examples of us having granted larger powers to the government in hopes that they will fix problems for us that we won't fix ourselves.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#564
post #71

I've no doubt things like this will continue to happen. Trump, Musk and co will not stop on their own transforming the US into an authoritarian and likely fascist state. It's now up to the people of the US to stand up and save their democracy. Russia and China must be delighted to see the damage Trump's dealing.

> It's now up to the people of the US to stand up and save their democracy. We weren't able to save our economy from monopolies and tyranny, and now you want us to go stand up against the people with tanks and machine guns!? At this rate I expect you'll tell me to stop importing iPhones and Perrier...

> We weren't able to save our economy from monopolies and tyranny, and now you want us to go stand up against the people with tanks and machine guns!?

Yes, because what's the alternative? To give up and watch? I won't be easy, but if you're not even trying, no one can save you.

> At this rate I expect you'll tell me to stop importing iPhones and Perrier...

No, I won't. I don't tell you what to do at all. It's just my view on the path the US currently is. And I'm hoping, yes, because what happens in/to the US affects the world a great deal.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The government of Columbia has agreed to all of President Trump's terms, including the unrestricted acceptance of all illegal aliens from Colombia returned from the United States, including on U.S. military aircraft, without limitation or delay. Based on this agreement, the fully drafted IEEPA tariffs and sanctions will be held in reserve, and not signed, unless Colombia fails to honor this agreement. The visa sanct…

And how does this make the economy boom, exactly?

"Some things are more important than GDP".

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: the audience is so biased that they automatically reject facts in conflict with their biases.

No amount of showing you the mistakes in your papers works. “Women earn 52 cents on the dollar!” Same job? “Yes” No, look here. “But there is still this argument” — No, there isn’t, it’s been studied in that other study. You guys just always come back and cast doubt, but it’s only this: Doubt and finally, falsehoods.

> You guys just always come back and cast doubt

If that's your attitude, maybe you're the one with the preconvieved biases.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was an order from the President as an official act, no scrutiny can be applied here in any court (broad immunity recently granted by the SCOTUS: absolute immunity for actions within his core constitutional powers and presumptive immunity for other official acts)... so good luck proving any wrongdoing without any evidence... If you go after any of the underlings who executed such order, they are likely getting…

That's not true. The restriction applies only to scrutiny of the President himself -- his agents still can be prosecuted.

And he can pardon them, without even specifying what he pardons them for. Indeed, this seems to be becoming the the norm.

The US really needs to reign in the pardoning power. There are 3 areas in particular that need coverage (I'll cover pardons by the President, but the same might apply to Governors):

1) Most pardons come with a political cost, either for the president himself or his party. The main exception is just after an election, especially during the President's last term. This could be solved by outlawing pardons during the last 6 months of a term. At minimum, morally questionable pardons should come with such a cost.

2) All pardons should specificy specifically what actions and potential crimes they apply to. They do not specifically need to be admission of guilt (as they may be for gray zone behavior that could need protection against political prosecution by the next administration), but they do need to specify what actions or allegations they apply to.

3) Congress' ability to specifically contest pardons should be clarified. Specifically, congress should have the ability to contest a pardon, if the pardon is made from personal interest, seriously undermines the rule of law or national security.

Also, since the sitting president's party may controll the Speaker seat at the time, even the NEXT congress should have a chance to start proceedings. This requires that congress retains the right to do this even if the sitting president resigns before the term ends. (Since the new congress starts before the president's normal term ends).

Taken together, the above 3 points would ensure that IF a president is seen by the general public to abuse the pardon power, voters would get one chance at voting for representatives (and senators) that promise to "restore justice".

The time to introduce such a system would be now, while there's still outrage over Biden's pardons among Republicans. Democrats would also want to go along with this to prevent Trump from abusing the power in similar (or worse) ways near the end of his term. In fact, if they're sufficiently scared of this, they may even allow an opening to impeach Biden for potentially corrupt pardon's that were granted during the last weeks of his term.

This would allow Republicans to go after Fauci, Hunter, etc, in congress by impeaching Biden over those pardons, even now, even if they wouldn't actually be able to reach a guilty verdict in the Senate without significant Democrat support.

Still, being able to run this show may be so tempting to Trump and Republicans that they may be willing to make the new law effective immediately, while Democrats

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#568
post #347
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specifics: The data is not disappearing. The data and the related tools have been temporarily removed to be cleaned and brought into compliance with Trump’s executive order (basically removing “gender” or replacing it with “sex”) That should be the intellectually honest title and that is what is happening. So lets check in 3 weeks. If data and tools are not back then we can say and complain about data disappearin…

>(basically removing “gender” or replacing it with “sex”) There's no Gender or Sex component to the CDC's SVI methodology why was that dataset removed? https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/community-stress-resource-center/p... It's you who is being intellectually dishonest.

I checked some old data from the Social Vulnerability Index (SVI), and it seems likely that it was removed to comply with Trump’s anti-DEI executive order.

I completely agree that SVI becomes less useful if you strip out the “Racial and Ethnic Minority Status” variable. Just wanted to provide an intellectually honest answer about why this page was taken down.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#569
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem. Real humans in real world cannot be impartial and will always have biases. So if you expose the public to many different biased opinions and let them learn to recognize the biases and see past them, the "cumulative mindset" will be more objective and less prone to manipulation. But if you let one biased group decide what the majority is allowed to see, the public opinion will inevitably align with…

> if you expose the public to many different biased opinions and let them learn to recognize the biases [then good stuff] Is that an assumption, or based on research? Based on the last couple years of elections, I'd guess that exposing the public to every opinion ever makes people vote for the most catchy sound-bite. I don't follow american news enough to echo whatever people echo over there (perhaps "pro life"? Not…

Hmm, I'm not sure the "do we want more or fewer muslims in this country?" question is as rethorical as you say.

Also, I don't think the main real reasons for such a question are the economical ones, even if that DOES matter to some.

It appears that the main concern for the populist right is that the people (ethnicity + culture) they identify with will become a minority or even disappear at some point.

One can always discuss if this is a realistic threat or if it is, if it's really such a bad thing.

But I think it's pretty obvious that for as long as Northern Europe has the kind of generous welfare states they currently have, there will be a LOT of people in the "Global South" that really would like to come, easily enough to overwhelm some of these countries, if there are no restrictions on immigration.

Which is what makes "do we want more or fewer muslims in this country?" a valid question to ask, as far as I can tell. Either that, or "What is the maximum number of we want to have in our country?"

If even asking this question is a taboo, well then that's almost like deleting datasets that your political group doesn't like.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#570
post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely know, the legal requirement to retain records does not extend to a requirement to maintain those records on a public web site . You are not arguing in good faith. Please stop muddying the waters with your buffoonish rhetoric. Thanks.

In case it helps you to have someone chime in besides the person you're arguing with, "You are not arguing in good faith" applies a lot more to "stop muddying the waters with your buffoonish rhetoric" and "What is this, the X Files? Vague allusions like this don't make you look wise" than to anything the person you're arguing with said. I don't know the answer to the point you're arguing and I can't tell who's right…

I strongly disagree.

When someone is wrong, you can correct them. When someone is lying, i.e. knowingly spreading falsehood in an effort to manipulate an audience, it's vitally important to call them out on it. People need to recognize who is using misinformation as a weapon. The points of highlighted are manipulative rhetorical techniques, not merely bad arguments. These people need to be identified and shunned, especially in a place as committed to dialogue as HN.

Sorry you don't like my phrasing. What method would you suggest to call alarm to a dishonest actor in a public space?

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