Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 773 posts

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#561

Post by majikandy »

d4l3k wrote: post #164
zoover2020 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hoe did you root yours? Did you lose out on any functionality?

There's some functionality loss but it's mostly been mitigated. I have a custom app I wrote since I can't use the stock app. The one feature I miss is that there's no voice commands since that requires Tesla's servers but at the same time I also haven't been bothered enough to plug in a custom backend

It’s ok, the voice commands are barely understood anyway. At least in the UK they aren’t. Gets it drastically wrong and messes up your navigation destination, because you asked it to open the glovebox “navigating to Columbia”

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#562

Post by liendolucas »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #529
liendolucas wrote: post #348

> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry. Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.

People overreact to this. If this didn't exist, they would just manufacture cars the old way where multiple version of the same car are produced at high and low prices. I have seen no evidence provided this actually increases the total price of a high feature car. This might actually lower the average price paid because of the economies of scale achieved by making fewer different versions of the same car. Resale valu…

I'm not overreacting to this. I'm absolutely tired to learn that subscriptions are being pushed everywhere. Having to pay for something that is already in a vehicle is insulting to me. Car manufacturers should sell cars, not subscriptions of ANY kind. What's going to be tomorrow? Will I have to subscribe to a service to actually let my speakers emit sound despite that I have payed for them? Ridiculous today, a business tomorrow.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#563

Post by sawjet »

eschneider wrote: post #330
alerighi wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense it's something car manufacturers have made for years. Most of the time the difference from one model of a car and another with more power is the mapping on the engine control computer. Till this day it wasn't a problem since this was not really locked down, and despite the fact that is illegal, people did modify the car software to unlock more power quite easily. But... that "locking" of feature kind of ma…

I've done a fair bit of work with engine ECUs and remapping for more power is almost never "free". It's not like manufactures are offering different power outputs strictly via software, though sometimes they'll make different _tradeoffs_ between power/drivability/reliability. I mean, it's easy to get 20% more power out of an engine if you don't care if it idles like a washing machine. And for some applications, that'…

>I mean, it's easy to get 20% more power out of an engine if you don't care if it idles like a washing machine

Can you explain this? How does remapping an ecu make the idle different?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#564

Post by jimmyk2 »

circuit10 wrote: post #547
hot_gril wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? All part of cost tradeoffs. Previously, they'd build the car with the ability to support all those add-ons even if the customer isn't getting them. Turns out it's cheaper not to do that.

I wish the solution was to just give everyone those features. Maybe it can’t work like that but this feels very wasteful

I assume it’s all to game the starting MSRP.

Like the barebones Tesla 3 that existed on paper but was basically impossible to order. OE’s know most people will spring for that creature comforts.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#565

Post by elwell »

omginternets wrote: post #90
zht wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your phone isn't a 3500 lb metal box of death on public roads with other cars, cyclists, and pedestrians

We already have a system in place for this: civil liability and criminal culpability. If you hack your car negligently, you can be sued for negligence or charged with manslaughter.

Neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, but it follows that you should also maintain this: "It should not be illegal to drink alcohol while you drive. If it affects your driving performance negatively, that, in isolation, is what should be penalized."

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#566

Post by femto »

hot_gril wrote: post #530
sdfignaionio wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Tolerable, perhaps, but pretty far from fine. It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? We have built a society where what is plainly crazy is rational.

> It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? All part of cost tradeoffs. Previously, they'd build the car with the ability to support all those add-ons even if the customer isn't getting them. Turns out it's cheaper not to do that.

Being a tradeoff it works both ways. Customers get broken add-ons for free if it's cheaper to not pursue the customers that fix them.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#567

Post by circuit10 »

jimmyk2 wrote: post #564
circuit10 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the solution was to just give everyone those features. Maybe it can’t work like that but this feels very wasteful

I assume it’s all to game the starting MSRP. Like the barebones Tesla 3 that existed on paper but was basically impossible to order. OE’s know most people will spring for that creature comforts.

That reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/cLGcGnGJvL0 where they say how one of the reasons laptops are getting harder to upgrade is probably so they can make you buy an expensive configuration and still advertise a low starting price

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#568

Post by wingworks »

sdfignaionio wrote: post #522
sirsinsalot wrote: post #464

There's a lot of missing the point in these threads about software locks. Building a car in a uniform way for economy of scale savings, fine. Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Using software to rent-seek on one time costs like heated seats. Not fine. Less fine too if the seat subscription can't carry to secondary market. This can he used to cripple seconda…

>Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Tolerable, perhaps, but pretty far from fine. It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? We have built a society where what is plainly crazy is rational.

Kinda what the chip Intel (and others chip makers?) have been doing for years. Make the best next gen chip, then strip out parts to slow it down and sell cheaper ones. Not 1:1 the same, but pretty similar.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#569

Post by someplaceguy »

someplaceguy wrote: post #508
anamexis wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, dash cams specifically are a bit of a gray area, but for example CCTV of any public areas is generally illegal. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-warns-its-camer...

I think EU countries are supposed to be using the same legal privacy framework, although the exact way the laws are phrased and interpreted might differ from country to country. I believe in Spain, generally speaking, it is legal to record your interactions with someone when you are in public. But I think many people are not aware that this is legal, including some police officers, because privacy laws are perceived…

> you are only allowed to have CCTV outside if it's pointing directly at your door, not the street in general (and you must post a sign).

I forgot to mention that I highly disagree with this restriction.

It's really, really bad for home and personal security: pointing the CCTV at your door does absolutely nothing when a robber / kidnapper enters your house while wearing a ski mask.

However, pointing the camera outside could much more easily record their identity in the days previous to the crime while they were staking the house (even if they only get caught after the crime), as obviously it's not very feasible to stake a house wearing a ski mask.

Or at least, it would deter them much more heavily and possibly prevent a not-insignificant proportion of kidnapping cases, since most of them seem to occur in people's own homes, which seems to be the easiest choice.

I am similarly an extremely big critic of self-defense laws in European countries, which basically leave you completely defenseless in your own home even if you or your family are being kidnapped, due to the huge asymmetric advantage that an attacker has over you.

Or at the very least, you risk going to jail for many years if anything goes wrong.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#570

Post by chemmail »

anamexis wrote: post #291
ballenf wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying dash cams are illegal broadly there?

In Germany, dash cams specifically are a bit of a gray area, but for example CCTV of any public areas is generally illegal. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-warns-its-camer...

Not to worry, chinese made cams broadcast everything for everyone on the internet to see. Nothing closed circuit about that!
Post reply on HN