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“My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

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Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel what you're saying is true, but not really something that should matter in a criticism of BTC when BTC is actually easier to secure than other dilution proof assets like gold. 3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would likely already be at least as safe as dollar checking accounts.

I would also recommend against keeping assets as gold in your basement. > 3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would likely already be at least as safe as dollar checking accounts. I think that's off by orders of magnitude. If the whole US did this then I'd expect thousands to screw it up every year. "Just don't make any mistake, ever" doesn't scale. Not to more people, and not to any one person, given enough time…

I don't know how 3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would be less safe by orders of magnitude.

At this point we'd both need to go do extensive research at the levels of a full time job to really prove one way or the other.

Suffice it to say we disagree and you seem to have much more trust in institutions than I.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, not at all. Your hardware wallet is useless without the bitcoin trust frameworks and the implicit agreement among many people that these particular bits on your hardware denote anything of value. Both of these are completely beyond your control and reliant on mechanisms not fully understood. It’s a system boundary question: yes, your wallet is under your control (how do you know what’s baked into the silicone o…

>There is a huge amount of vested interest in persuading people bitcoin or ethereum require no trust in third parties. It requires trust that third parties will act rationally in accordance with the incentives provided by the system , which is very different from trusting someone to custody assets for you. At a larger level it requires trust that people will continue to see BTC/ETH/etc as being worth something, but t…

Sure but is a rationally acting financial institution operating in line with the incentives of the system they operate not also inclined to do everything to keep your money safe?

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things have better protection in traditional finance. Sure, they don't have credit card consumer protection, but they do have other protections. Unless you're using blockchain financial instruments in order to do more blockchain stuff (the circular use case), the other options are better. Trading oil futures doesn't need cryptocurrencies. And if you use it anyway then you expose yourself to additional ri…

You can still always fall back to the government if disagreements occur. The advantage of smart contracts is they automate away the need for costly lawyers in the good case (which is most of the time). You don't need to pay so much overhead for "protection". The benefit an open finance platform provides is you don't have to have some blessed middleman that conducts the trades or holds money. There are a LOT of these…

> You can still always fall back to the government if disagreements occur.

Does the government have an override mechanism on the blockchain? If yes then what was the point of blockchain. If no, then will the government fork the blockchain?

Does the government just put someone in prison until they give up the keys? Most countries don't have true "life in prison", and what are the implications for the wrongly convicted in the ones that do?

How would you invalidate an illegal smart contract where one party is the estate of someone who died, are in a coma, or gets put under conservatorship?

> The advantage of smart contracts is they automate away the need for costly lawyers in the good case (which is most of the time). You don't need to pay so much overhead for "protection".

Most of lawyer work is clarifying intent, and legal compliance. Smart contracts try to replace the former with coders, but without a common sense safety net. And without the knowledge about what contracts are even legal. As for compliance, that's still needed.

E.g. writing a smart contract to pay someone automatically needs to support garnishing a salary due to various court actions.

What lawyer work exactly becomes automated? Do you know lawyers, and what they spend time on? Every example of smart contracts seem to me to be incredibly arrogant, and even more ignorant about what lawyers do.

It has a smell of "I don't know what they do, which means it can't be hard. I can write a twitter clone in a weekend, so surely I can write a script to replace a lawyer".

You can write a "bucket shop" web app over a weekend, but you need a lawyer to tell you it's illegal, or under which circumstances it's illegal. That's the real "protection".

I mentioned FTX and Tether to point out that the industry is built on a house of cards. E.g. if Tether implodes then that affects your BTC. I'd say it's more likely that Tether implodes than that the US government implodes.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a huge amount of vested interest in persuading people bitcoin or ethereum require no trust in third parties. It requires trust that third parties will act rationally in accordance with the incentives provided by the system , which is very different from trusting someone to custody assets for you. At a larger level it requires trust that people will continue to see BTC/ETH/etc as being worth something, but t…

Sure but is a rationally acting financial institution operating in line with the incentives of the system they operate not also inclined to do everything to keep your money safe?

I think the key phrasing here is "the incentives of the system they operate" — it isn't completely unfair to say that large financial institutions have had a hand not just in operating, but in creating the system. They act according to broader financial incentives and are constrained by regulations (so disincentives), and their time horizon is much longer than the tight feedback loops produced by a blockchain. Their disproportionate influence over the financial system coupled with a feedback loop in terms of consequences that, compared to blockchain, is glacially slow and basically toothless, effectively gives them a ton of latitude to do shady stuff with your money.
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