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“My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

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Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#551
post #438

Could this be a "boating accident" since it's tax season? Or maybe only his Twitter was hacked? No info from him at his mastodon https://mastodon.social/@lukedashjr@bitcoinhackers.org If true this is absolutely devastating. Somewhat funny too, but devastating. edit: Well, it's confirmed. Insane. https://twitter.com/peterktodd/status/1609655629903265795 https://twitter.com/peterktodd/status/1609666001251229696

When referring to Peter Todd, it's worth remembering that he's accused of rape and may not be a reliable source: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.34...

While not excusing anything alleged, that's a curious non-sequitur.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#552
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may come as a surprise you to that the recovery rate for BEC incidents that are not immediately detected is very low and that victims often spend years suing their banks for faulty fraud protection in court for either only a partial settlement or nothing in return.

Having worked in banking for 20 years and knowing how many fraud transactions are reversed, I do indeed find that false information to be surprising.

> The challenge is that most BEC attacks will use bank accounts outside the US. In truth, the IC3 RAT recovered less than 14% of the total US$2.4 billion in BEC losses last year.

https://www.welivesecurity.com/2022/04/26/trouble-bec-how-st...

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA220504

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#553
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I have a 3-of-5 multisig. That means there are 5 hardware wallets. I put a hardware wallet in my safe in my house, one in a bank deposit box, and 3 with 3 friends or relatives. Now a thief needs to steal 3 of these to steal the coins. That's going to be hard for a thief to do. If a fire or natural disaster happens, it needs to destroy 3 wallets before I lose my money.

But aren't we still pretending that crypto is a currency? So this means anytime I actually want to spend some of my own money, I need to go to the bank deposit box and also find at least one friend to help me out? If we are all just taking these coins out of circulation to make them as hard as possible for anyone to access, including ourselves -- then what was the point of the entire thing again?

> If we are all just taking these coins out of circulation to make them as hard as possible for anyone to access, including ourselves -- then what was the point of the entire thing again?

> But aren't we still pretending that crypto is a currency?

These are such smug comments.

> So this means anytime I actually want to spend some of my own money, I need to go to the bank deposit box and also find at least one friend to help me out?

No, it means you have options to fully secure and own crypto assets in a way dollar bills or bank accounts never allowed. You don't have to do it this way, but if you actually have wealth, you should protect the larger portion of it.

If you have $1000 worth of BTC, just carry it in a hot wallet.

If you have $10000 probably put $9000 in a cold wallet and $1000 in a hot wallet for spending.

If you have $100000, you should probably use 2/3 or 3/5 multisig with a collaborative custody company like unchained capital.

If you have another order of magnitude more money than that you probably know better than myself how to hold your wealth.

In any of these cases, you have full control. Nobody can move your BTC without your sign-off. Your capital cannot be rehypothecated.

So in response to your smug question, yes lock away in deep dark vaults your wealth should you have enough to care about. For daily spending walk around using your hot wallet.

Your comp sci oriented since you're on HN, so if that still doesn't satisfy you, then think of it using caching layers. Keep the bulk of your wealth (should you have enough to justify it) in an L1 deep cold storage, then another smaller chunk in L2 cold storage in a single wallet, and finally L3 in a hot wallet for daily spending.

Another way to view it is if you want anonymity and sovereignty over your dollar bills, you have no choice but to secure it yourself -- probably in a safe.

If you're willing to let someone be a dollar custodian (banker) in today's system, they'll only keep a fractional reserve and lend it out. In actuality today they have other more complicated (but lesser) reserve requirements and without the FDIC bank runs would be commonplace. There's then a whole discussion about the solidity of the FDIC and whether it may collapse.

Fractional reserve systems create the banking cycle and is why we have booms and busts. Ponzi's and fractional reserve systems in crypto are why the crypto market just boomed and busted. There are a small number of legitimate crypto currencies and they're value is tied to the illegitimate ones simply due to crypto-crypto liquidity vs crypto-fiat liquidity.

In this thread nobody is taking a holistic view of what BTC provides.

Even comments that say we're not talking about valuation.

The problem is valuation is part of the reason BTC matters. Sure, you can get custodial security in dollars, but they'll be devalued for banking and governmental purposes.

BTC is sound money that's actually easier to store and use than Gold/Silver. That to me is the way to view it.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With collaborative custody companies like unchained, this is actually not as difficult to do right as you're making it seem. Further, unlike an armored truck full of cash, security by obscurity is really easy here. That and for a short duration (say moving houses as you suggest) one could wipe a cold wallet clean and just remember a seed phrase. Personally, I don't have enough wealth to make this sort of maneuver at…

I was once running a service that had redundant ISPs. None of them had had an outage in years. Then we needed to do a change, the first one ever that required disconnecting one of the ISPs. In the 4h window of our planned job the remaining ISP had its first outage that affected us. We had to apologize to many big name customers that depended on us. Since then I don't believe in short SPOFs. You could get hit in the h…

I feel what you're saying is true, but not really something that should matter in a criticism of BTC when BTC is actually easier to secure than other dilution proof assets like gold.

3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would likely already be at least as safe as dollar checking accounts.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#555

Side note: twitter really sucks now. I have to click 200 times on "view the replies" to unroll the thread comments. I gave up in the end

It never loaded for me, I had to use threadreader to see the original tweet

Maybe because I'm behind a VPN

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have yet to use my crypto on crime, i have however bought numerous things with various coins..

Just for fun, or why? I try to use my credit card as much as possible for remote purchases, because if the extra legal protections.

Most of crypto is used in Decentralized Finance, basically an open source version of the activities done on Wall Street. Very little is used for everyday goods (and you're right, why bother when credit cards give much better rewards)

Have you bought options with your credit card? Borrowed money against collateral? Purchased and collected revenue rights to music? Traded oil futures?

These are the kinds of things I'm doing frequently on Ethereum.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#557
post #488
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. >When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design. If someone sends you a phishing link, gets your info, logs into your online banking and sends all of your money overseas, that theft generally can't be reversed either. (You'll…

But vast majority of banks will call you and go "yo, wtf", some even outright lock your account (with many false positives but still) from doing so. There is zero chance that will happen for bitcoin.

Not for Bitcoin no. For other more advanced currencies (everything that supports smart contracts) rules likes these can be coded into the wallet.

You can have a rule that allows spending <$1k at known places, but anything over that has to have approval from 3/5 board members, or your manager etc. Any spending rule can be coded like this.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once running a service that had redundant ISPs. None of them had had an outage in years. Then we needed to do a change, the first one ever that required disconnecting one of the ISPs. In the 4h window of our planned job the remaining ISP had its first outage that affected us. We had to apologize to many big name customers that depended on us. Since then I don't believe in short SPOFs. You could get hit in the h…

I feel what you're saying is true, but not really something that should matter in a criticism of BTC when BTC is actually easier to secure than other dilution proof assets like gold. 3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would likely already be at least as safe as dollar checking accounts.

I would also recommend against keeping assets as gold in your basement.

> 3/5 multisig with collaborative custody would likely already be at least as safe as dollar checking accounts.

I think that's off by orders of magnitude. If the whole US did this then I'd expect thousands to screw it up every year.

"Just don't make any mistake, ever" doesn't scale. Not to more people, and not to any one person, given enough time.

It's like running a yellow light (and the occasional red, when you thought it'd be yellow a bit longer). You can go your entire life never being in an accident. But there are accidents every day because people run yellow lights.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for fun, or why? I try to use my credit card as much as possible for remote purchases, because if the extra legal protections.

Most of crypto is used in Decentralized Finance, basically an open source version of the activities done on Wall Street. Very little is used for everyday goods (and you're right, why bother when credit cards give much better rewards) Have you bought options with your credit card? Borrowed money against collateral? Purchased and collected revenue rights to music? Traded oil futures? These are the kinds of things I'm d…

All of those things have better protection in traditional finance. Sure, they don't have credit card consumer protection, but they do have other protections.

Unless you're using blockchain financial instruments in order to do more blockchain stuff (the circular use case), the other options are better.

Trading oil futures doesn't need cryptocurrencies. And if you use it anyway then you expose yourself to additional risk not in traditional finance.

E.g. the difference between FTX shenanigans hurting investors (who are now being victim blamed for "not your keys, not your coin") and anyone financially reliant on Tether shenanigans (which includes all holders of BTC) is that Tether seems to be getting away with it, by so far not being subject to a liquidity check / bank run.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of crypto is used in Decentralized Finance, basically an open source version of the activities done on Wall Street. Very little is used for everyday goods (and you're right, why bother when credit cards give much better rewards) Have you bought options with your credit card? Borrowed money against collateral? Purchased and collected revenue rights to music? Traded oil futures? These are the kinds of things I'm d…

All of those things have better protection in traditional finance. Sure, they don't have credit card consumer protection, but they do have other protections. Unless you're using blockchain financial instruments in order to do more blockchain stuff (the circular use case), the other options are better. Trading oil futures doesn't need cryptocurrencies. And if you use it anyway then you expose yourself to additional ri…

You can still always fall back to the government if disagreements occur. The advantage of smart contracts is they automate away the need for costly lawyers in the good case (which is most of the time). You don't need to pay so much overhead for "protection".

The benefit an open finance platform provides is you don't have to have some blessed middleman that conducts the trades or holds money. There are a LOT of these middlemen in finance and many of them are rent seekers abusing laws to their advantage, and working to add more laws to entrench their company as "part of the system".

Then there is the problem of bigger players using their power to "change the terms of the deal" and force smaller players to comply or spend years in court challenging them. When the terms are coded ahead of time and the platform is neutral there is no entity they can corrupt to get their way and the contract executes as specified.

Lastly these systems are transparent, anyone can monitor and report on companies doing dodgy things, rather than a few overworked government bureaucrats. It also makes everything composable with everything else, anyone can build their own Bloomberg terminal equivalent, which is amazing.

FTX isn't DeFi BTW, they were an unregulated opaque trading firm. They are exactly what is wrong with finance.

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