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The strange case of Britain’s demise

economist.com

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Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#561

Post by rr808 »

2143 wrote: post #497
pifm_guy wrote: post #219

Britain is in a post-empire downfall, and has been for 120 years. If you want to see where it leads, see Portugal which is 50 years further ahead on that path.

I've never been to Portugal, and don't know much about it. Upon reading your comment, I casually looked up its economic stats and on first glance nothing jumped out at me. So, what's wrong with Portugal?

Wages are by far the lowest in Western Europe, less than half of UK or France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#562

Post by rr808 »

asdadsdad wrote: post #343
foobarian wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worse than that, it feels like the end of the exponential part of the massive growth S-curve that started after WW2 with rebuilding, tech breakthroughs, the transistor, electronics, computers, globalization, etc. Now all that is finally in steady state and the structures that built up around the growth are falling in on themselves. People try to blame whichever government is currently in power or whateve…

Agree, and it's sad because indeed Britain in the early 2000s was the coolest place to be. I mean, if they had stayed in the EU it'd still have a lot of its appeal. Now it's just a sad island with tough immigration and not much to offer. London used to be the kind of place young Europeans would head to, without plans. Now not sure whey are people going.

Rome, Paris, Amsterdam, Madrid - there aren't any good affordable capital cities any more. Maybe Berlin? It has the advantage its rebuilding after the cold war still.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#563

Post by webmobdev »

rayiner wrote: post #385
webmobdev wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. This is unfortunately not unique. India too has seen the rise of the right, and its democracy threatened and at a perilous stage. Many other countries have seen the rise of the right too. However, I feel this is a political pattern that can be observed historically and generationally, where the political spectrum switch between extremes of left and right…

What you’re seeing in India is democracy in action. Modi has the highest approval rating of any major world leader, nearly 80%: https://morningconsult.com/global-leader-approval . What you’re seeing is the majority of Indians overthrowing the minority of British-educated secular liberals that have ruled India since independence. This is an excellent analysis of what’s happening in India: https://unherd.com/2021/04/th…

> What you’re seeing in India is democracy in action. Modi has the highest approval rating of any major world leader ...

If you think democracy is only about winning elections, then Hitler was a great democrat too.

> India is maturing, becoming culturally more self-confident, and shedding its post-colonial skin.

You mean the current indian leaders prefer to live in the past, fantasising about its glorious history while preferring to blame all its misgivings on "foreigners" to repress their feelings of insecurity with an equally dysfunctional sense of superiority complex?

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#564

Post by Tycho »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #394
Tycho wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scaling effects matter. In practice there are many parties but most of the votes go to two of them.

And so the big parties have a disproportionate advantage. That's why there's no push from either of them to change the system and why it ends up essentially being a scam for the big parties.

The big parties continually moderate their positions so that about half the population wants to vote for them.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#565

Post by Tycho »

scatters wrote: post #367
Tycho wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people criticise FPTP using these hypothetical scenarios that do not resemble the actual outcomes.

Because they do resemble the actual outcomes. The 2 major parties in the UK regularly get majorities in Parliament on far less than 50% of the vote. In the USA gerrymandering has been brought to a fine art. How can this not contribute to discontent, when the majority of people get a government they didn't vote for?

It’s not like they’d be content with a deadlocked parliament where the ‘government’ they voted for can’t enact any policies. It’s good that there’s two dominant parties, both fairly central, who continually moderate their policies to keep high levels of support, and after an election, one of them gets to actually govern.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#566

Post by timbit42 »

VK538FY wrote: post #289
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

I understand your point. 'First past the post' may not be ideal for your country. For other countries, it is appreciated despite its inconveniences. Example: Québec. We inherited 'first past the post' from England. The results are obvious: small parties with significant numbers of voters in many ridings don't end up in parliament. But Québec is a rural province with only one city worthy of the name, Montréal, almost…

There are numerous ways to implement PR. The problems you mention can be avoided.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#567

Post by timbit42 »

euix wrote: post #174
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

I believe this is a common trend through the west. Here in Canada the current Federal Liberals won the last two election with about 30% of the vote which when you take into account how many people even vote amounts to something like ~5 million people in a country close to 40 million. The kind of overarching policies and rhetoric coming out of government is widely disproportionate to that level of mandate.

They had to coalition with another party to form a government with over 50% of the seats. It's more democratic than straight FPTP.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#568

Post by astrange »

asdadsdad wrote: post #549
asdadsdad wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an interesting reading a while ago, trying to find. It basically boiled down to "The Canadian dream is move to America". Canada is a middle-class, "middle-all", in fact, country with, in my opinion little excitement. But then again, that's just my personal opinion. Factually, yeah, the US offers more purchase power, better salaries and better mobility.

My point is: if you have to leave the US due to immigration, frankly I'd rather go to Britain than Canada. At least I get an exciting change in lifestyle. Canada is too close to America in what it tries to do but fails. UK is f* up, but at least it's Europe

May be the the first time I’ve heard the UK called “exciting”.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#569

Post by reducesuffering »

refurb wrote: post #556
reducesuffering wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all three measures I mentioned above? When it comes to abortion, it's more of a wash. By one measure, US is now more decentralized, less federal gov., thus more right wing. 13 US states have complete elective abortion bans at all times, thus much more right wing. Most other US states have somewhat more lenient abortion laws, roughly ~6 weeks longer in general, thus more left wing. If that's your best and only exam…

And Canada has no restrictions whatsoever on abortion. Now do attitudes towards immigration and multiculturalism. I’d argue Canada and the US are more “left” of Europe on that issue as well.

You brought up Canada, Canada being more left than US just furthers my point that US is more to the right than over developed countries. As to comparing European countries to the US on immigration; % of immigrants in the country

Switzerland: 29%

Sweden: 20%

Germany: 19%

Austria: 19%

Ireland: 18%

Belgium: 17%

Norway: 16%

Spain 15%

*US: 15%

Netherlands: 14%

UK: 14%

France: 13%

Denmark: 12%

Italy: 11%

US doesn't seem like any sort of above-average on your chosen metric either...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati...

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#570

Post by lgkghfjhgjhfg »

theGnuMe wrote: post #516
lgkghfjhgjhfg wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US went on austerity too but it didn't stop them their economic boom.

Not true. The uk did, USA did not. https://carnegieendowment.org/2011/03/24/tale-of-two-politie...

It is true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011

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