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Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

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Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#561

Post by sudosysgen »

slg wrote: post #430
sudosysgen wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is still a Palestinian nowadays though. The reason why there are less Christian Palestinians is because a lot of them were deported or fled shortly after the Nakba. A lot of them would come back if Palestine was restored, but most of them are legally prevented by Israel from coming back. Not even Hamas or Hezbollah wants Palestine to be a single religion or single ethnicity state, so I don't really understan…

I'm not going to get that deep into politics here. You are basically arguing for a one state solution except it is Palestinian run instead of Israeli run. HN probably isn't the place to have that debate.

I wouldn't care if it was Palestinian run or Israeli run, if it was one or two states, as long as its peaceful and democratic.

What I care about are factually wrong and misleading statements.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#562

Post by bronzeage »

geofft wrote: post #371
woodpanel wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this question revolves around words and their effect… "most populated" > "crammed" > "jailed" > "the new warsaw ghetto" there must be a word that describes your question of why : The word you're looking for also describes what's enabling the cognitive dissonance of putting Gaza in the same category as a Singapur, a Tokio or Hong Kong without blinking: Economic powerhouses that draw talent from developing and de…

What's the phrasing you'd prefer? "Children were once again murdered in cold blood in Gaza, a metropolis that could be just like Singapore, Tokyo, or Hong Kong given its dense population and prime geographic location, were it not under constant military oppression from a country whose illegal nuclear weapons program is more successful than that of North Korea"? I think a lot of people would find that uncomfortably pa…

You mean that land which Israel withdrew from unilaterally, let it have a chance at prospering and instead of minding its own business they elected a terrorist organization, turned it into a millitary base and concentrated on firing rockets and kidnapping soldiers instead of showing they can responsibly control their land?

Gaza is prime example of where Arabs and Palestinians tendencies lead them when left alone. Every single horror coming from there they brought upon themselves. They proved they are incapable of civilized behavior. All they had to do is behave like rational human beings after the disengagement. Palestinians aren't rational human beings like you would expect. Every chance they get at peace they will intentionally ruin, even if all they have to do is absolutely nothing.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#563

Post by betterunix2 »

birksherty wrote: post #552
hereme888 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They launched missiles in response to the thousand rockets that terrorist Hamas launched against their civilians. Don't be posting such a biased, one-sided story.

Which happened in response to waht? Don't be posting such a biased, one-sided story.

In response to an aggressive police action at a Muslim holy site, which was in response to rock-throwing protesters, who were protesting various civil disputes in Jerusalem.

Are you actually suggesting that rocket fire is justified because of overly aggressive policing?

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#564

Post by Nasrudith »

three14 wrote: post #532
sofixa wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you call it when a military air force with enormous reconnaissance capabilities bombs civilian targets and civilians, including children, die?

I don't understand your argument. You want to point out that this is terrible, and in an ideal world, no one should be bombing anyone? Of course! That doesn't mean you should say, e.g. that Israelis are cannibals just because cannibalism is bad.

How is it not cold blooded murder then? The bombing is a killing. It is deliberate. It is done with ample preparation time and not under fire. You said it was misuse of the term. What keeps it from being proper to not call it cold blooded

The nations can do what they want special pleading is the only argument I can see against murder but it would be an inconsistent one. Fiven the sheer number of state acts called murder completely unchallenged as such. Since WWII at least "at war" isn't an excuse for murder. While they may have called retaliatory executions for partisans war it was never called anything but murder in WW2.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#565

Post by sudosysgen »

benja123 wrote: post #446
sudosysgen wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is still a Palestinian nowadays though. The reason why there are less Christian Palestinians is because a lot of them were deported or fled shortly after the Nakba. A lot of them would come back if Palestine was restored, but most of them are legally prevented by Israel from coming back. Not even Hamas or Hezbollah wants Palestine to be a single religion or single ethnicity state, so I don't really understan…

The Christian population in the Christian towns of the Westbank (Bethlehem) and in Gaza have been decreasing steadily for the past 70 years - this has nothing to do with the occupation of the Westbank and Gaza and everything to do with persecution by the local population. This trend is not confined to just the Westbank and Gaza and is in fact a trend that is occurring across the entire Middle East where in the past 1…

Have you ever been in Gaza or the Westbank?

How these places work is that if you leave, you can never come back.

These places are awful to live in. The only people that stay there stay because they don't have a choice or for ideological reasons. That's why Christians leave moreso, they often have family that left and can get refugee status more easily.

The trend of Christians leaving is a highly localized trend. The greatest number of Christians left not everywhere in the Middle East, but in Iraq, Syria, and, a while ago, Turkey.

The events in the last sixty years that contributed the most to Christian emigration were the Lebanese civil war, the Iraq war, the Syrian Civil War, and the Nakba of 1948.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#566

Post by bronzeage »

betsushikime wrote: post #535
golergka wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never, in any other conflict, witnessed a public opinion on the side of the aggressor. I've never, in any other conflict, seen an army that's not fighting overseas, but is desperately trying to prevent massive loss of life in it's own population, accused of "disproportionate" response — even though it would take measures to prevent any casualties that are completely unprecedented in world practices and makes ach…

Yes, the coverage of the conflict is one-sided and popular opinion is on the side of the Palestinians. The reason for that is that the conflict itself is one-sided. Gaza is occupied by Israel. Further, Israel has the overwhelming advantage in military power and the Palestinians suffer the overwhelming majority of casualties every time there is conflict. In the 2008-09 war, the total number of Israeli citizens killed…

Gaza is literally not occupied by Israel. Israel withdrew all troops and even banished their own citizens from Gaza. All the Palestinians had to do was not be absolute savages and attack Israel after being given their land with no strings attached.

Every single restriction put of Gaza was a direct result of the Palestinian's abuse of the disengagement to fire rockets and kidnap soldiers. All they had to do was simply live in peace, instead they proved to every watching Israeli that Palestinians are bloodthirsty savages. After the result of the disengagement from Gaza being this, only radical left in Israel even contemplates giving Palestinians sovereignty.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#567

Post by sudosysgen »

belorn wrote: post #464
sudosysgen wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your argument. Jewish Palestinians plus non-Jewish Palestinians do make up 100% of Palestinians.

You would have land owned by Jewish Palestinians, land owned by non-Jewish Palestinians, and land cooperatively owned by both Jewish and non-Jewish Palestinians. Jewish Palestinians plus non-Jewish Palestinians do not make up 100% of Palestinians, but rather the result of 100% minus land cooperatively owned by both Jewish and non-Jewish Palestinians.

You're confusing land and people here.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#568

Post by bronzeage »

deanCommie wrote: post #384
golergka wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason that this conflict always gets the same optics in international media — jewish lives are worth less. At first, as you don't want to believe it, you argue, you investigate, you really try to find any sane reason that while these things are happening on ground with you and your family, everybody else still sees a different picture, and then you just come to realisation that there's no other explanation for…

But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?

This is a war where one side, Israel, attempts to minimize both sides casualties, while the other side, Hamas, tries to maximize both sides casualties, including their own people. Purely from intentions perspective, it's clear who should be criticized.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#569

Post by runarberg »

three14 wrote: post #442
geofft wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the phrasing you'd prefer? "Children were once again murdered in cold blood in Gaza, a metropolis that could be just like Singapore, Tokyo, or Hong Kong given its dense population and prime geographic location, were it not under constant military oppression from a country whose illegal nuclear weapons program is more successful than that of North Korea"? I think a lot of people would find that uncomfortably pa…

Whatever criticism Israel may or may not deserve over its current bombing campaign, you aren't going to convince anyone if you misuse phrases like "murdered in cold blood". That's just not what those words mean.

We like arguing in hypotheticals here on HN so lets bring a modified trolley problem into the discussion:

This modified version has the trolley heading steady on course to the next station, there is nobody on the track and nothing will happen if you leave it alone. However you stand next to a lever, and if you pull the lever you will divert the trolley and it will hit 200 people (some are criminals but most aren’t). You have ample time to think it over. If the trolley passes, you still have the option to pull the lever and the next trolley will hit those 200 people. You know full well what happens if you pull the lever. You also know you will not be punished if you do.

Say you are an observer in this modified version, and you observe me pulling the lever. 200 people are now unessisary dead because of my action. Do you consider me a cold blooded murderer?

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#570

Post by geofft »

three14 wrote: post #530
geofft wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why I am misusing the phrase? I believe it to be objectively accurate. Again, that phrasing might make people uncomfortable. as I wrote above. I understand that, and I understand why people desire to censor it. But I don't believe it's incorrect, which is another thing entitely.

I'd like to think I would have resisted responding, but I see another response that doesn't answer your question, so, oh well- The dictionary seems to use "murder" for premeditated killing. Even if you think Israelis are the devil incarnate, killing children doesn't serve their interests. You have to go pretty far into conspiracy territory to believe they secretly want those children to die, and then turn around and…

Is it a conspiracy theory, then, that the US engaged in the premeditated killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, deliberately obliterating an area much wider than the legitimate military targets in those cities - that they in fact wanted a large number of civilians to die - and then turned around and argued (almost certainly correctly!) that they were actually trying to minimize civilian casualties by not bombing Tokyo or mounting a land invasion? Is it improbable to believe that an entire chain of command authorized those deaths without emotion? Does it require believing that Americans, as a whole, are the devil incarnate for such a thing to have happened?

Like I said, maybe the words make people uncomfortable. But I don't think they are untrue.

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