The unusual ways Western parents raise children • Hacker News Board

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#561

Post by damontal » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

eurusdac wrote: post #214

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I agree, my advice to any new parent would be to listen carefully to advice about how not to drown your child while bathing them, and how to make sure they're not suffocated by their bedding. Both real issues where some simple practices avoid the small risk of an absolutely catastrophic outcome. Then take all other advice with a pinch of salt. Just follow your best instincts and do what seems right. Your child will b…

There’s also a right and a wrong way to install a car seat. Some local fire departments will check your installation for you.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#562

Post by caddemon » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #101

meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

It's all so strange to me. My son (now 26) always had summers free at minimum. While he was younger, he did go to a YMCA outdoor "adventure" day camp at a nearby lake park. Once he was in middle school, he stayed home. Sports 2-3 seasons, but he got to pick which one he played and never the crazy travel league stuff. In high school, he was free to do what he wanted (football for 2 years, guitar all 4, and a mix of re…

I don't disagree with your premise, I'm strongly against parents trying to game college admissions for their 13 year old. But getting into UVA is not easy at all. Especially out of state, the admit rate is like 15% - so while not as crazy as Harvard it's in line with a few of the Ivies.

IMO a lot of the admissions-centered thinking has propagated down the rankings further and further in recent years too. Anecdotally I've seen people over-scheduling their children for target schools in a tier below UVA. This attitude of course creates a terrible feedback cycle, as admissions gets more and more competitive. At some point I'd like to think the admit offices are sick of seeing so many prototypical candidates, but still you need to do something to stand out. Ideally the parent should advise the kid on this meta-info, without literally telling them what to pursue.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#563

Post by bluGill » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #446

robocat wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought a large number of lawyers end up not earning much? And straight out of university, you really can’t look at the average, because the income distribution of lawyers is extremely bimodal in the US: https://www.biglawinvestor.com/bimodal-salary-distribution-c...

But not for doctors. The lower end of the household income range I listed is achievable by doctors alone. I would also presume doctors are more often than not marrying lawyers on the higher end of the income scale. Bottom line, based on numerous personal experiences and pay data, I do not expect lawyer/doctor families to have the quality of life the person I was responding to claim they have, on average.

You are confusing quality of life with money saved for a rainy day. So long as the income holds out they are not much different, but when bad times come one is in trouble

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#564

Post by jay_kyburz » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

This whole thread is chaos, but I just wanted to share my experience in case its useful for anybody. Once our kids were out of the bassinet and into a larger cot, rolling and crawling around a lot, it was really clear they just wanted to be with us, and in the end we just found it best for everybody if they just slept between us or even lying on my chest.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#565

Post by caddemon » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #168

kkwteh wrote: post #47

From the perspective of the Lindy principle it is weird. I have an eighteen-month old child and have been reading a lot about child rearing since my wife got pregnant. It’s taboo to say this, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I suspect that a lack of adult attention in the first three years of life is a principal factor in the rising autism rates we’re seeing in modern economies. This would explain why autism…

A simpler hypothesis is that "upper class people" are getting married later and having kids later. Higher parental age is associated with autism (among many other things).

I also saw some research suggesting that engineers are more likely to have Autistic kids. The increased social mobility of women has undoubtedly lead to more "power couples" (in the modern sense), I wonder if perhaps there is some effect that people with slight Autism risk factors are more likely to mate with each other these days?

Totally spit-balling, but I guess the larger point is there are a lot of possible explanations for what OP describes (if it's even true, diagnosis may just be more likely in those families)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Post by domino24 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #351

rootusrootus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Potty training is also something that differs widely between developed nations and rest of world. And between kids. My daughter just up and decided at around 18 months or so that she was done with diapers and would use the big girl potty. Not one accident. My son was more apathetic about the whole thing, and it was sometime past his third birthday before he finally started using the toilet to poop in. The piece of…

What you're saying goes to the heart of the article: Why are things so different in western nations compared to developing nations w.r.t. child raising? Potty training is one of the many places where we diverge wildly. Take for example Vietnam, where kids are out of diapers at around 9 months[1]. Even in the US the age at which children are potty trained has crept up slowly from 1 year to 19 months to 27 months today…

Diapers are cheaper, and disposable diapers more widely available. That could potentially shift the scales for what is more difficult (hand washing diapers vs training at a young age whereas now: disposable diapers and wait until training is easier)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Post by jessaustin » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

johncessna wrote: post #379

lotsofpulp wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, a doctor/lawyer dual income couple should be earning at least $300k, if not $500k+ per year. Source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... Even with $600k to $800k ($4k to $6k per month loan payments) of student loans, they should be able to pull off a decent lifestyle and be positive net worth by their mid 40s.

Income doesn't equate to wealth. You have to look at the other side of the equation, outgo, to determine what someone's net worth is. In addition to student loans, there's the house payment. People tend to buy a house based on what they can be approved for, not based off of a budget number they developed before talking to a bank. A 300k salary will get you pre-approved for a a lot of house in the US. Docs and Lawyers…

Docs are conspicuously missing.

Student loans are the reason for this. Physicians have to pay a great deal for school in USA.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Post by quercusa » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 3:01 AM UTC

dr_orpheus wrote: post #464

rustybelt wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add, the people saying something works and the people saying it doesn't are both right.

Definitely, every baby is different and what works for one baby may not work for another.

When our second was 15 minutes, we knew "This one is different." 22 years later, still true.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Post by hombre_fatal » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

plutonorm wrote: post #546

zamfi wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, "sleep training" is just a more palatable euphemism for "cry it out". My view is that however you slice it, you are conditioning the baby that no one will respond to its distress. You claim to be doing a lot of "research" in other posts but also drawing on your "experience" -- "sleep training" is not "cry it out", and in fact modern sleep training is explicitly about telling your child that you AR…

You have kids. You step up. Yes it's hard, but it's your absolute unshakeable duty to do your best by them. Putting them down to sleep away from you and then expecting them to suck it up and deal with it when they get distressed is one of the most idiotic things that I hear otherwise intelligent people say. To a child, separation from their parents is the most stressful experience possible because in the wild separat…

You can't be serious.

People use your exact, extreme language to justify every other superstition they have about raising their kids.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

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Post by _carbyau_ » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

Viliam1234 wrote: post #495

leokennis wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it’s very simple: I work and my wife works. After some maternity/paternity leave, we both need to get to work again to earn money to provide our kids with food, shelter, a future etc. To be able to work, we need to sleep. For us to sleep, our kids and the baby needs to sleep. So we put the baby in his own room on day three. Always had him sleep in his bed in his room. Didn’t let him sleep anywhere else (or whe…

It is sad if in 2021 a wife (or a husband) cannot take even a year or half-year break from the career. (To avoid possible confusion, I am shaming the society, not you.)

Agreed. Fortunately my wife's University employer provides 14 weeks full pay, then 38 weeks 60% paid maternity leave.

I would still argue that society needs to figure a way to balance this out for both the male and female partnership(IE figure out a way for men to participate in equal fashion for that year) but that hasn't happened. As it is, we're grateful for this much compared to what many have.