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YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

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Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#561

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Except that there is no correlation to gun ownership and crime. We know the places that have more guns don’t have more crime, we can’t call correlation to that, but we do know adding guns doesn’t increase crime - because that’s been true since the high crime peak of the early 1990s where crime has been falling with guns skyrocketing. It’s painfully childish to claim that it’s some surprise that where guns are that th…

Adding guns probably doesn’t increase crime rate. It does the mass murder rate. It is precisely gun crime that I abhor. Thus I'm opposed to their availability.

Can't wait for the citation from an actual study (try the CDC, they've put out at least 3 since 2013)!

You should be able to easily show that rural USA with it's murder rate on part with Europe is definitely not the place where all our guns are... oh wait...

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not too upset about them getting rid of videos on how to do things like full auto conversions [0](although I'm curious how they'll handle videos of bump firing that don't incorporate accessories like bump stocks). The language of the ban is vague enough that it could cover nearly all videos of firearms accessories. Right now, manufacturers often put videos up on YouTube of how to install parts they sell. Like wit…

In principle, I think it would be reasonable if the ban essentially applied to conversions/repairs that normally would not legally be allowed to be done by people without a licence, since that should be the best proxy to social consensus on the limit of free speech. However, this is presuming that the laws regarding that are reasonable and not too lax, which as I understand they aren't (yet). In the same vein, I thin…

I largely disagree, but for a fairly nuanced reason. The work that it takes to get an FFL is mostly knowing what is and isn't legal, with a bit of proving that you have proper safety facilities to store what you keep on hand (proper powder magazine if you do large batch reloading, etc.) You can get one without knowing the first thing about actual physical modifications to guns. You can get one solely to carry inventory and sell it, with no services provided. Having resources for that person is incredibly useful! It's not like we're going to ban books on guns, or the blueprints that are part of 100+ year old public record. The prints for the Colt Model 1911A1 are up on the library of congress because it was designed for the military circa WWI. I'd prefer proper safety disclaimers on videos, or in books, or wherever. Preferably with a reasonably complete guide to shop safety and precautionary measures on that sort of thing, but I don't want it all banned per se.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting for the answer here. What the NRA is doing is a disservice to gun owners. They are making a gun ban more likely by not offering any reasonable alternatives. My opinion is we need state run (but federally funded) gun licensing to ensure safe owners and gun registry to ensure the guns stay with those owners. Other countries do it. It works just fine. We are not having that conversation in America today in…

The registry is a non-starter. A significant fraction of gun owners will see registration as a precursor to confiscation. A smaller fraction fear that the registry will either be public from the start or significantly breached within a short time frame, such that gun owners will be selectively targeted for harassment or burglaries. Given what New York has done recently, I presume that a lot of gun owners will also si…

> A smaller fraction fear that the registry will either be public from the start or significantly breached within a short time frame, such that gun owners will be selectively targeted for harassment or burglaries.

Gawker is well ahead of you here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-09/gawker-po...

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#564

This is very dismaying to see I have used Youtube in the past for seeing how to install gun accessories, put guns together, how to fix malfunctions, etc. Watching those videos has made me a more knowledgeable, and hence more responsible gun owner. This is an especially large blow for people who are part of niche communities, like reloading ammo for 100+ year old rifles. A lot of historical content will be lost. The n…

This is indeed an alarming move of trying to censor gun information online is by far the most miguided approach to regulating guns I've seen thus far. There aren't inherent risks to knowing the mechanics of physical items much less channels that deal with proper handling of guns or gun communities online. You are literally moving their communities further into the deepweb and making gun ownership a nefarious thing! O…

> You are literally moving their communities further into the deepweb and making gun ownership a nefarious thing!

For some, this is the intended outcome.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a rooted Android device with a Google-free AOSP distribution is (mostly - radio firmware being the exception) 'my phone' while an 'iPhone' is not. On the Android I get to decide what software gets installed, what services to run and which to shun, which programs to allow network access with fine-grained control, both in- and outgoing traffic, which versions of the software to run, etcetera. With the iPhone th…

A rooted android device is still counted in their stats on phones running android. An iPhone is showing that you switched to their competition.

I don't care about stats, I care about my freedom. As to whether I'd be counted among the droids or the fruits is of no importance.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked for drugs, and tax evasion, and human trafficking, and alcohol for awhile. Simply make it illegal and it goes away!

The logical conclusion from that train of thought is that laws have no meaning if people break the laws. So why have any laws?

Do you understand that outside of obvious moral ethics - that a law against murder doesn't stop someone from murdering. It only gives lawyers a way to punish it.

It's the punishment that is the deterrent.

Why should law abiding gun owners be punished again?

Adding punitive laws is not a deterrent. Enforcing those laws is. We don't enforce many guns laws, then you come in yelling about adding more laws.

The logical conclusion isn't that laws have no meaning if they're broken, it's that they have no meaning if they aren't enforced, and we're not.

Parkland could have been avoided in at least 6 different ways. So tell me how your new-laws that make illegal things illegal-er would stop people with no criminal record from being bad.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They had no vision of the M-16, AK-47, etc. " They also had no vision of the Internet. So, obviously, the First Amendment only applies to quill pens and manually-operated printing presses. Right? "The statement of the 2nd Amendment begins with, "A well regulated militia..."" If the First Amendment had read "A well-educated legislature being essential to the governance of a free state, the right of the people to keep…

Well if the first amendment were stated differently than what it is then people would interpret it differently. I fail to see your point on that. There is much that the writers of the constitution didn’t foresee. I think it’s ridiculous, in many cases, to try to seek what they originally intended. Society is far more complex now than it was then. I mentioned their views for the self described originalists. These peop…

My interpretation of the 2nd is that not only does it make explicit the right to own and carry arms, but also the right to own any and all arms of military relevance. You can't fight off King George XXIII if he has war machines imaginable only by the likes of Tyssot, Swift, Mercier, or Restif, and you still only have your musket from the 1770s.

At the time of drafting, the founders hadn't yet encountered the Pawnee vs. Cheyenne/Lakota style of total warfare, and had barely even invented hit-and-run tactics. As such, it would have been prudent to amend the amendment at least once in the last 230 years. I'd prefer that laws banning chemical, nuclear, radiological, and biological weapons would have constitutional backing, that torture and other war crimes be banned explicitly, and there be some concession for denying deadly munitions to antisocial maniacs and bellicose outlaws.

Reinterpretation is not the proper channel towards rational arms policy, or to resolve any other problem with the document not anticipating societal progress. Amendment is the prescribed remedy. There have been calls in the past to convene an Article 5 Amendments Convention, as it is the only way to propose an amendment when the Congress won't, but we've never actually had one. Perhaps it is time?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"full on assault" Which means? Too many bullets? Wrong color? Too accurate? Too easy to use? It's a meaningless term unless you interpret as a positive attribute.

You're right. What's important is he had 24* weapons, 14 of which were AR-15s with bump stocks which allowed them to fire at 9 rounds per sec (easily Googleable). So not technically assault rifles but practically he had 14 assault rifles. Which is crazy. How can you even purchase that many? Do those who resist gun control believe arsenals like that are reasonable? This question is in good faith. I just don't understa…

Yes they are reasonable. I have more than 24 guns, most of which are so called “assault weapons”. You are not taking them.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding guns probably doesn’t increase crime rate. It does the mass murder rate. It is precisely gun crime that I abhor. Thus I'm opposed to their availability.

Can't wait for the citation from an actual study (try the CDC, they've put out at least 3 since 2013)! You should be able to easily show that rural USA with it's murder rate on part with Europe is definitely not the place where all our guns are... oh wait...

I don’t understand your sarcasm. I agreed with you that the crime rate has not gone up due to an increase in gun ownership. But guns in their current form certainly increase the lethality of those with bad intent. This isn’t deniable.

My claim is that the mass murder rate, the rate at which we have mass killings in the U.S. would go down if buying/selling guns were illegal.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crux of what I'm getting at is, do you think that you should have the right to moderate the content on your own platform that you built? As I've said elsewhere on this thread, corporations don't have rights, people do. A more clear way to say this might be: corporations only have rights inasmuch as the people who make up the corporation have rights. Even though you're not asking this rhetorically, the way you'r…

> As I've said elsewhere on this thread, corporations don't have rights, people do. A more clear way to say this might be: corporations only have rights inasmuch as the people who make up the corporation have rights. > But giant corporations are different from individuals. You can see how this gets fuzzy then, right? At what point is a corporation "giant"? How to measure and who decides that? Why is it okay for your…

> You can see how this gets fuzzy then, right? At what point is a corporation "giant"?

Maybe the exact point where a corporation becomes integral enough to society that it needs to be regulated to protect people's rights is ambiguous, but it's not really ambiguous that YouTube is far past that point.

And I'm not being ambiguous at all about corporations not having rights. Limited liability has to be balanced by restrictions on what an LLC can do, or there's no incentive for people to act sociopathically (which they do). This is true at any size, and corporations violating the rights of individuals aren't limited by size. However, issues with small corporations are both less concerning and more likely to be handled by market forces.

> How to measure and who decides that?

Traditionally it has been regulatory bodies such as the FTC or the FCC. Congress typically hasn't made laws that target specific corporations or small groups of corporations, instead leaving that sort of micromanagement to the regulatory bodies. There are pros and cons to regulatory bodies versus congress handling these things. Ideally I'd want it to be elected officials so that citizens get more direct control.

"Measurement" isn't really applicable: you're looking for a size that can be quantified, but I'm talking about human rights violations.

> Why is it okay for your Dave's Liberal Hosting Service to arbitrarily moderate material but not YouTube?

I already covered this:

"If I started Dave's Liberal Hosting Service with just a server and a dream, and only hosted Democratic websites, that's fine, because such a service doesn't become the platform of the internet that everyone is forced to use--it's likely a conservative equivalent would arise even before I built a significant business. Part of the problem is that services like Reddit and YouTube have performed a bait-and-switch--they built themselves into major platforms on a free-speech ideology, and then when they were too big to fail, they turned into ideological platforms."

> Both YouTube and Dave's Liberal Hosting Service are still made up of individuals, and you think that individuals should be treated the same. So why aren't they?

Neither corporation has any rights: there's just not much reason to drop the hammer on Dave's Liberal Hosting Service if it's small enough that competitors could arise easily to meet need, and they've not banned any existing users. All the users who Dave's Liberal Hosting Service would "discriminate" against are already using Bob's Conservative Hosting Service, so free speech is available to society.

There are really only two household names in the video hosting space in the US, YouTube and Vimeo, and both of them ostensibly support all content, but don't actually live up to that promise. Not only is free speech not available in that space, but it used to be (at least, moreso), so previous users have had their channels taken away from them; their best options at that point are basically starting over if you've built a channel. If YouTube had started with the promise of censored content, they would have grown in tandem with competitors with more permissive content policies, and this wouldn't be the problem that it is today.

Both corporations are made up of individuals, but when they're acting behind the veil of a corporation and in fact decisions are being made by only a few of those individuals, while they trample the rights of the rest of the individuals that make up the corporation. If you're going to appeal to the idea that people shouldn't be forced to host content they don't agree with on a platform they built, you should realize that it's very unlikely that the engineers who built YouTube are the same people as the executives and board members making the decision to censor their content. The larger the corporation, the more disconnect there is between the individuals that make up the corporation and the actions of the corporation. With corporations of YouTube's size, claiming that individual rights confer rights on the company just doesn't hold water: you're only conferring rights on the decision makers of the company, at the expense of the rights of workers who devoted their work to older policies and may not agree with the new policies.

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