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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#561

Post by orbitur »

erics32 wrote: post #203
orbitur wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left" Yes, those "left" beatings get zero widespread cultural support. Violence is not glorified by any prominent voices on the left. Whereas racist and sexist voices on the right make a boatload of money and fill up the comments of every news article posted to Facebook. It's cultural.

>zero widespread cultural support. Violence is not glorified by any prominent voices on the left. This is just not true.[1] Even in our tech community it's pretty commonplace to see 'it's okay to punch a nazi' is a well supported position.[2] [1] https://heatst.com/culture-wars/prominent-leftists-celebrate... [2] http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/15/now-its-okay-to-punch-nazi...

I thought parent commenter was referring to generic Trump supporters being beaten.

When someone thinks you don't deserve to live because of the color of your skin, you're well within your right to defend yourself against that idea. You shouldn't have to wait until they're knocking down your door.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#562

Post by grzm »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #541
crikli wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to not confuse liberals with leftists. My liberal friends have remained (for the most part) fairly objective and open to dialogue. My friends who identify as leftists...not so much.

I agree entirely. The Left co-opted the term "liberal" to the detriment of true liberal thinkers in America. Liberals, even if you don't agree with them, are generally interesting people to talk to and (from my experience) often easy to get along with. They, by definition, are willing to entertain alternative ideas and debate them. Leftists, while not all cut from the same cloth, are not a subset of liberals. The BLM…

I think co-opted is a bit strong. I don't think there's ever been a concerted effort on the left to own the word liberal. If you know of any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to learn about it.

I think it's more accidental in that terms end up associated with one side or the other, and in this case the left perhaps had an edge in that it's generally been associated with civil liberties. (Whether or not that can be supported is a separate discussion.) Having effectively two parties in the US results in a lot of incongruities.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#563

Post by Arizhel »

ar15saveslives wrote: post #426
RangerScience wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'll bite. I don't actually know what you're talking about. I haven't experienced either a gender or a racial war, or the promotion of it. But I want to take this "personal". When have you, personally , been the victim of a gender / race war? (My hunch is that you haven't, but that you see the promotion of one, because it sells.) (Towards my points - the #1 difference is not the only difference, and there are d…

I like your logic. "You know, I have never been a victim of a murder, therefore murders don't happen". When a company publicly announces "we're affirmative action company", I understand it as they openly exercise racism and/or sexism against me. And trust me, as a divorced guy, I've experienced institutionalized sexism A LOT.

>And trust me, as a divorced guy, I've experienced institutionalized sexism A LOT.

How so?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#564

Post by [deleted] »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #541
crikli wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to not confuse liberals with leftists. My liberal friends have remained (for the most part) fairly objective and open to dialogue. My friends who identify as leftists...not so much.

I agree entirely. The Left co-opted the term "liberal" to the detriment of true liberal thinkers in America. Liberals, even if you don't agree with them, are generally interesting people to talk to and (from my experience) often easy to get along with. They, by definition, are willing to entertain alternative ideas and debate them. Leftists, while not all cut from the same cloth, are not a subset of liberals. The BLM…

[deleted]

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#566

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

davidw wrote: post #554
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Also it's already illegal for a corporation to hire an illegal immigrant. If trump hired 10,000 FBI officers to start punishing the corporations who hire these workers instead of punishing the workers themselves then we could see some progress.

What would happen if the change were rapid and strong would be a lot of businesses closing, as Americans aren't going to take those jobs, and many of them are not easy/cheap to automate. So a lot of things would close and we'd purchase the goods/services from abroad. Or, in some cases, pay a lot more for things.

>Americans aren't going to take those jobs

...at those wages. The whole point is that if your business can't survive by paying wages that american citizens will accept then you should welcome the creative destruction of capitalism. Your business shouldn't exist and more importantly you should get out of the way so that a business which can exist and pay wages that american citizens will accept can take your place. No more race to the bottom.

>Or, in some cases, pay a lot more for things.

I realize that, I'm just not opposed to it.

EDIT:

>and many of them are not easy/cheap to automate.

Many of them aren't easy to outsource either. An illegal worker in the United States is much more expensive than a child in Thailand. There's a reason those jobs still exist here.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#567

Post by splintercell »

leesalminen wrote: post #420
cr0sh wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deportation probably wouldn't be such a problem if they weren't also deporting legal residents along with the "illegal" ones. Yes - this happens. We still don't know how many Sherriff Joe and other officials in Arizona deported. It was basically a program here of "if you're brown enough, don't speak enough english, and can't produce any docs on the spot" you had a good chance of being rounded up, sent to an ICE facil…

Serious question: why would an American citizen choose to not learn the national language? Doesn't that disadvantage you severely in life?

It's not just about 'choice', I live in a predominantly Russian neighborhood with a Russian wife, but no matter how hard I try I can't learn Russian because they all very conveniently speak English.

Similarly, if you're Hispanic, it would be hard for you to learn English if everyone else around you speaks a convenient language (i.e. Spanish), even if they could speak both the languages easily.

It's kind of a trap, you'd learn English more easily if you left Spanish speaking community, but because you don't know English, it's hard to leave that community.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#568

Post by dllthomas »

jenkstom wrote: post #480
tylerwhipple wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went from Salt Lake City to San Francisco as well. I have always been quite liberal on issues and it had never been a problem, but when discussing issues in SF I felt I had to be very careful with what I supported. I always felt my friendships/employment was threatened if I disagreed. I had a good friend/startup founder once say anyone who supported Trump deserved to be fired and blacklisted.

It's not any different in, say, Oklahoma. Just the reverse.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't do better, of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#569

Post by jimnotgym »

Joeri wrote: post #553
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

Things aren't like that here in belgium, but one thing I've noticed about the left which seems to apply everywhere is that they are ideologically petrified. The real problems of the world require left-leaning policies, but the actual policies the left are peddling are dated, harmful and missing the point. I feel like all the left needs to do to make a huge leap forward is to take an axe to their existing book of poli…

I think you have hit the nail on the head, the old ideas of left and right are soon to be obsolete. This current Trump/Brexit world may be the last hurrah of the luddites. What will be the point in labour rules, when everything is delivered by robot? How will Thatcher/Reagan low corporate tax economies fare when there are no workers paying tax.

I think it is time for a new politics that addresses globalisation, technology and the internet, but I fear it will take a calamity, and the death of the current political dinosaurs before it is a reality

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#570

Post by naravara »

phkahler wrote: post #559
naravara wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Too bad that's not actually a core principle of the democratic party - see what happened under Obama, See what? That he reduced the deficit during his tenure? >and see how little one of their biggest fiscal mouth pieces (Paul Krugman) cares about debt or deficits. Obama took office during an economic depression. This is how macroeconomics works. You spend to goose demand when the economy is down and you tax for the…

>> See what? That he reduced the deficit during his tenure? http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.ht... What?

TARP is signed by the Bush administration at the end of 2008. The money kicks in with Obama’s entry in 2009 and has ARRA added to it as he begins the herculean effort of digging us out of the Bush recession.

By 2016 the deficit is back down to 2008 levels. And that’s despite Ted Cruz’s shenanigans.

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