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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#561

Post by danenania »

l33tbro wrote: post #370
rudolf0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little unethical behavior was actually leaked, though. The killing of the Reuters journalists probably should've been leaked since there was a sort of cover-up (government refused to give Reuters the video or concrete details), so I'll give her that. But the rest was basically just normal communications. I think she's served more than enough jail time, but this didn't really seem like a conscience-driven whistleblowi…

Could you please elaborate on this? I recently had dinner with a friend in intelligence, who was trying to convince me that Snowden was in bed with Russia from the get-go, and that the 90% of the leak had nothing to do with privacy concerns. I took his opinions with a grain of salt given his background, but also couldn't refute due to being relatively unfamiliar with the Snowden saga.

Every bit of the leak was about mass surveillance--how could it not have to do with privacy concerns?

The "in bed with Russia" thing is just a smear. No one has produced any evidence of this, and it's really hard to make it match up with how everything unfolded.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#562

Post by interfixus »

mhurron wrote: post #95
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Please don't rewrite history. Manning may be a woman today, but was unquestionably a man at the time of the leak. Hence, 'HE acted', not 'she'.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#563

Post by the_trapper »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #539
andrewflnr wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She had this much control over what WikiLeaks would do: she could have given them less.

How much time do you think someone on active duty in Iraq has to sort through data?

> How much time do you think someone on active duty in Iraq has to sort through data?

You've clearly never been deployed. You have more free time than you know what to do with.

Think about what you do when you get off shift at your job. Now remember that you have no family or friends that aren't also co-workers to hang out with. No alcohol, limited access to new movies and video games. You are also stuck within the confines of whatever base you're assigned to. If you're lucky there might be a one-screen movie theater or an internet café. You might even be able to get severely bandwidth-capped satellite internet in your tent/third-of-a-trailer-shared-with-a-roommate that you call your room.

Despite what you want to believe about Manning, lack of time was no excuse for indiscriminate leaking of sensitive information that honestly and truly put lives at risk.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#564

Post by danenania »

hendersoon wrote: post #313
vkou wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the rest was basically just normal communications. Which may have had wide-reaching consequences, with respect to the Arab Spring.

"May"? We're way past "may". The Arab Spring was catastrophic.

It was catastrophic because despotism fought back and (mostly) won. But that doesn't mean the uprisings or the actions leading to it were wrong or futile. It's a long road.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#565

Post by kafkaesq »

gozur88 wrote: post #551
kafkaesq wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Man, I really need to watch what I say to the Americans." Given the degree of subterfuge the US has facilitated in many of these countries, over the years -- most of these folks already knew that.

Everybody knows what you say to a diplomat from any country is going to get written down. But there's always been a tacit agreement that not everything gets shared with the world. And I think you're mostly jumping at shadows here. Diplomacy is a lot less interesting and less nefarious than you seem to believe.

Diplomacy is a lot less interesting and less nefarious than you seem to believe.

About 95% of it, yes. But if the other 5% were so profoundly uninteresting then people wouldn't be talking about how "embarrassing" and "damaging" it was to have it released.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#566

Post by grzm »

adrienne wrote: post #535
grzm wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly believe the majority of the downvotes are because of tone, not position. As for hate comments in response to any of 'adrienne's in this thread, I see three that are very uncivil and have been flagged dead (and won't appear unless you have showdead on). Another is arguably uncivil and has also received a net negative votes. If you have a separate tally, please point it out. That's not to say all of the down…

If people are downvoting me for incivilty, they should also be downvoting all the misgendering, which is fundamentally uncivil no matter how calm and even the tone in which it is done.

I skimmed the comments in this thread, searching for references to "he" or "they" (and the instance of "guy" I found) in reference to Manning. I found 3 "he", 1 "guy", and one "they". All were downvoted, two of them flagged dead. Admittedly this isn't comprehensive: there are currently over 500 comments. This doesn't include discussion of the use of "they" in general, or reflection on the use of "they" when the gender is unknown. Given that people regardless of whether you think it's reasonable or not have not come to a universal consensus on this issue, I think it's understandable to have civil discussion on this, which it nearly wholly has been.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#568

Post by Girlang »

adrienne wrote: post #351
akjainaj wrote: post #53

Why can the US president meddle with the sentence of a convict? Isn't that against the separation of powers? Not that I have anything against this guy Manning in particular, just asking why is this "tolerable" in a democracy. Isn't it a risk, that the president can pardon whoever he wants?

Manning is a woman, not a guy. It is fucking disgusting how many people here want to misgender her.

That's your opinion. I'm a woman, with XX chromosomes, and I'm not so sure. Can "black" be "white" because someone says so?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#569

Post by notpc »

etjossem wrote: post #556
hackinthebochs wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I read his statement and its definitely interesting. It doesn't really help his case though. Some of his actions he was acting as a whistleblower (releasing videos of civilian deaths), other actions he was acting as someone who simply felt information should be leaked (diplomatic cables and such). The problem is that these were separate acts and so while he may have been a whistleblower for some of the releases,…

I would argue Snowden's approach - working with the most reputable news outlets in the US to release only what was necessary - serves as a good example of ethical whistleblowing. Nonetheless, the intelligence community wanted him arrested after the NSA slides went public, and he will still be arrested if he sets foot back in the United States. Whistleblowers in the US government can and do go to prison, regardless of…

Biological sex is immutable. Whatever mutilations you have done to yourself notwithstanding.

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#570

Post by markdown »

fullshark wrote: post #464
cwkoss wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the leaks? What parts do you think are overblown? From what I've read, it appears the DNC directly violated their own bylaws by (strongly) preferring one candidate before the primary. Repeatedly and flagrantly. If the DNC isn't even accountable to itself, how should American voters feel about them having control over the duopoly of private parties which are allowed to select presidential candidates? At…

The issue is it was clear Clinton was winning before the race was over based on polling, superdelegates, and what states were remaining. The DNC wanted to discuss (privately) how to limit damage to HRC from Sanders attacks before the general. These sort of private discussion are totally reasonable for an organization like the DNC to have before the primary was 100% over cause they could see the writing on the wall. I…

> The issue is it was clear Clinton was winning before the race was over based on polling, superdelegates, and what states were remaining.

And the reason for that was because she was heavily pushed as the candidate by CNN, MSNBC, etc while the same media ignored Sanders. That it only became clear later that this media had relations with the Clinton campaign and DNC beyond just the personal biases of pundits is cause for concern IMO.

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