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Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use. This debate was settled when Windows replaced MS-DOS. Most users do not want to remember, or type, the names of the programs they want to use. Do you REALLY still browse through the start menu? Yes, frequently.

Then you are simply a different user type. Btw I presume from the bit about ms dos that you dont llike shells. But thats ur preference

No, I live at the Windows command prompt, pretty much. But like you said, I'm a different user type.

The difference between me and the people at Microsoft is that I understand that there are different user types. None of which asked for their desktop PC to behave more like their cell phone.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you are simply a different user type. Btw I presume from the bit about ms dos that you dont llike shells. But thats ur preference

No, I live at the Windows command prompt, pretty much. But like you said, I'm a different user type. The difference between me and the people at Microsoft is that I understand that there are different user types. None of which asked for their desktop PC to behave more like their cell phone.

Exactly. That was the big mistake behind windows 8. Their "one interface for all devices" idea. We didnt WANT same interface on all devices

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#553
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.

Your computer's power button functions as a shutdown switch. After 14 years in IT, you have never realised that?

My computer's power button is on the other side of the room.

Don't break useful, common functionality because you think it's not important.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#554
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I'm getting out of pretty much this entire post. As an asp.net mvc developer by trade, I could easily say that it could take me hours/days to get stuff done in node.js/rails/django/name-your-framework, that I could otherwise get done in minutes in mvc. Of course, I'm self-aware enough to realize that it's because I have 4 consecutive years of experience with .net, but only a cumulative of maybe a few mont…

I've worked with a lot of languages and a lot of frameworks over the years, and the ones from Microsoft are always hands down the most needlessly complicated and poorly documented of the bunch. PHP may be a double claw hammer, but at least it's a really well documented double claw hammer. MVC includes at least 5 different kinds of double claw hammer, a normal hammer, a combination hammer/chainsaw, a mislabeled jar of…

I disagree that MVC is not well documented, but perhaps I've just learned where the good documentation is (for MVC.)

That said, I have to agree that every time I've dived into PHP/RoR, there have been plenty of articles with well-drawn maps of the minefield (to borrow your analogy.)

> Oh, and just for fun every 5 years or so MS deprecates that particular mine field, lays a new one, and forces everyone to go play in the new minefield instead.

I know I started at the beginning with this new minefield (MVC came out less than a year before I started using it,) but I don't see this happening as much, at least not with MS's web offerings. The last version or two of MVC and EntityFramework have been OSS under Apache 2, so they can continue to be developed even if MS decides to go a separate route.

I understand that this is not the case for their desktop and mobile offerings, and that they have jerked their developers in that field around in different directions each time they come out with a new OS. I think that their web offerings are more stable. The only things that may change fundamentally are server components (IIS, SQL Server, MVC, EF, etc.), or the browser. If the browser changes, everyone's screwed; and if the server components change, the developer can simply decide to stay on older versions (until licenses run out, which I'll concede as one problem.)

And of course, all this flows back to documentation. PHP/Python/RoR have much better documentation because they're all much more widely used. If more people used MVC, more people would write about it, and there would be more documentation for it.

The only remaining issue is a pretty big one: cost. Yes, there's a VS Express Web Edition, but that has its own issues. So, you're left with BizSpark as the next best option. It's what I've done. I have 2 more years left before I have to decide whether to start paying. So far it's great, but I know that it's going to come back and bite me in the ass unless I start something profitable before then.

And I believe that that's the real reason that it's not more widely used; or at least the original reason, with lack of documentation and other MS-hate being secondary to and/or consequences of it. In a community where people have 5 ideas fail before hitting something profitable, it's hard to justify the extra cost of $1000 or more per developer, even if it's actually free for the first few years. Why risk paying $1000+ per developer and an extra $100+ per server 3 years from now, when you can start with something free and have it still be free 3 years from now? That's what it all boils down to.

I'll admit, I'm probably tossing in the towel on MVC soon. But it's not because of poor documentation or fear of being forced to switch to a new API requiring a large rewrite on my part. It's because 1) the IDE and servers are 5-10x more expensive than those for Python/Ruby/Node/PHP; and 2) everybody's using Python/Ruby/Node/PHP, so finding work is tough. After all, what good is working on a side project to show off my MVC skills, if nobody will hire me for it anyway?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#555
post #239

I guess the reason is because hackers love open systems. Even companies like google get shit from this place because "the best parts of Android are not open".

Doesn't explain why Apple gets praise (most closed of them all). I think it's more of a hype/image issue.

I didn't know Apple got praise from hackers. At least not in my circles.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#556
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.

Your computer's power button functions as a shutdown switch. After 14 years in IT, you have never realised that?

I was using it in a touchscreen tabletop.

Sticking to my guns on this one and choosing to let your sarcastic tone slide.

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