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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#551

Post by cmrdporcupine »

amunozo wrote: post #275

For those who rely on open source models but don't want to stop using frontier models, how do you manage it? Do you pay any of the Chinese subscription plans? Do you pay the API directly? After GPT 5.5 release, however good it is, I am a bit tired of this price hiking and reduced quota every week. I am now unemployed and cannot afford more expensive plans for the moment.

For DeepSeek you can use their API and if you ran it constantly you'd still be under what OpenAI or Anthropic charge for a coding plan.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#552

Post by LinXitoW »

randomgermanguy wrote: post #514
Bombthecat wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In six month deepseek won't be sota anymore und usage will be wayyyy down.

Only comparing on SOTA scores (ignoring price etc.) is like choosing your daily-driver by looking at who makes the fastest sports-car...

The constant improvements of SOTA are the main thing keeping the investment machine running. We can't really remove training costs from inference costs, because a bunch of the funding and loans for the inference hardware only exists because the promises the continuous training (tries to) provides.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#553

Post by accountofthaha »

jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

Does the 'zero CUDA dependency' also count for running it on my own device? I have an AMD card, older model. Would love to have a small version of this running for coding purposes.

Really nice to see the Chinese are competing this strongly with the rest of the world. Competition is always nice for the end-consumer.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#554

Post by solarkraft »

amunozo wrote: post #275

For those who rely on open source models but don't want to stop using frontier models, how do you manage it? Do you pay any of the Chinese subscription plans? Do you pay the API directly? After GPT 5.5 release, however good it is, I am a bit tired of this price hiking and reduced quota every week. I am now unemployed and cannot afford more expensive plans for the moment.

At home I currently use MiniMax via OpenRouter - it’s pretty good and very cheap. They have a subscription plan, but I’m not ready to commit to it yet.

Another way to keep the ability to try out new models is to buy a reseller subscription like Cursor’s.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#555

Post by LinXitoW »

revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

They got loans to buy inference hardware on the promise of potential AGI, or at least something approaching ASI, all leading to stupid amounts of profit for those investors.

We therefore cannot just look at inference costs directly, training is part of the pitch. Without the promises of continuous improvement and chasing the elusive AGI, money for investments for inference evaporates.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#556

Post by wallst07 »

cedws wrote: post #520
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a different Brit I do not accept such moral relativism. China’s governments actions are on a completely different level - for example: “”” Since 2014, the government of the People's Republic of China has committed a series of ongoing human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities in Xinjiang which has often been characterized as persecution or as genocide. “”” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

There’s little to no evidence of such “genocide”, but I can go on YouTube to watch videos of the US bombing civilians in the Middle East.

China is much better at hiding anything negative.

It's a little insane to me people comparing negatives of US and China. I mean, the simple fact we're allowed to say just about anything we want that is critical of the administration on this forum, in English and nothing happens is clear there is no comparison.

You have no idea the full breadth of the Chinese government because information is closed so quickly, in America it's all on display right in front.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#557

Post by wallst07 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #506
slekker wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But remember to not ask about Taiwan!

I can't wait for Taiwan to peacefully reunify with the mainland so the west with its constant war waging won't even have this talking point

Are you Taiwanese? If not, your statement is a slap in the face to those citizens.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#558

Post by 2ndorderthought »

dalemhurley wrote: post #326
sudo_cowsay wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if there are any security risks with using Chinese LLMs. Is there?

Theoretically yes. It is entirely possible to poison the training data for a supply chain attack against vibe coders. The trick would be to make it extremely specific for a high value target so it is not picked up by a wide range of people. You could also target a specific open source project that is used by another widely used product. However there is so many factors involved beyond your control that it would not b…

I believe this is possible but unlikely. I don't think a Chinese company trying to break down the US's stronghold in this field would do this short term. I think it is in their best interest to be cheaper, better, easier, and more trust worthy until competition looks silly.

It's like suggesting BYD has a high likelihood of making their cars into weapons or something. It's not in the company or their countries interest to do that.

Sure it could happen but I bet it would only happen in a targeted way. Why risk all credibility right now and engage in cyber warfare?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#559

Post by amunozo »

azuanrb wrote: post #437
amunozo wrote: post #275

For those who rely on open source models but don't want to stop using frontier models, how do you manage it? Do you pay any of the Chinese subscription plans? Do you pay the API directly? After GPT 5.5 release, however good it is, I am a bit tired of this price hiking and reduced quota every week. I am now unemployed and cannot afford more expensive plans for the moment.

I have $20 ChatGPT subscription. Stopped Anthropic $20 subscription since the limit ran out too fast. That's my frontier model(s). For OSS model, I have z.ai yearly subscription during the promo. But it's a lot more expensive now. The model is good imo, and just need to find the right providers. There are a lot of alternatives now. Like I saw some good reviews regarding ollama cloud.

I am thinking about getting some 1 year promotion as a student before defending my PhD.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#560

Post by wallst07 »

dalemhurley wrote: post #326
sudo_cowsay wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if there are any security risks with using Chinese LLMs. Is there?

Theoretically yes. It is entirely possible to poison the training data for a supply chain attack against vibe coders. The trick would be to make it extremely specific for a high value target so it is not picked up by a wide range of people. You could also target a specific open source project that is used by another widely used product. However there is so many factors involved beyond your control that it would not b…

or more obvious like TikTok.

Meaning Tiktok in the us is complete garbage for kids, almost like a virus. Whereas in China it's more educational.

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