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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#291

Post by Bombthecat »

schneehertz wrote: post #201
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

This price is high even because of the current shortage of inference cards available to DeepSeek; they claimed in their press release that once the Ascend 950 computing cards are launched in the second half of the year, the price of the Pro version will drop significantly

In six month deepseek won't be sota anymore und usage will be wayyyy down.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#292

Post by sudo_cowsay »

jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

I sometimes wonder if there are any security risks with using Chinese LLMs. Is there?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#293

Post by menzoic »

revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

API prices may be profitable. Subscriptions may still be subsidized for power users. Free tiers almost certainly are. And frontier labs may be subsidizing overall business growth, training, product features, and peak capacity, even if a normal metered API call is profitable on marginal inference.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#294

Post by ifwinterco »

vrganj wrote: post #148
gbnwl wrote: post #9

I’m deeply interested and invested in the field but I could really use a support group for people burnt out from trying to keep up with everything. I feel like we’ve already long since passed the point where we need AI to help us keep up with advancements in AI.

It honestly has all kinda felt like more of the same ever since maybe GPT4? New model comes out, has some nice benchmarks, but the subjective experience of actually using it stays the same. Nothing's really blown my mind since. Feels like the field has stagnated to a point where only the enthusiasts care.

For coding Opus 4.5 in q3 2025 was still the best model I've used.

Since then it's just been a cycle of the old model being progressively lobotomised and a "new" one coming out that if you're lucky might be as good as the OG Opus 4.5 for a couple of weeks.

Subjective but as far as I can tell no progress in almost a year, which is a lifetime in 2022-25 LLM timelines

Re: DeepSeek v4

#295

Post by Bombthecat »

mirzap wrote: post #198
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

My thoughts exactly. I also believe that subscription services are profitable, and the talk about subsidies is just a way to extract higher profit margins from the API prices businesses pay.

Google stated a while back, that with tpus they are able to sell at cost / with profit.

Aka: everyone who uses Nvidia isn't selling at cost, because Nvidia is so expensive.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#297

Post by kubb »

throwa356262 wrote: post #217

Seriously, why can't huge companies like OpenAI and Google produce documentation that is half this good?? https://api-docs.deepseek.com/guides/thinking_mode No BS, just a concise description of exactly what I need to write my own agent.

Western orgs have been captured by Silicon Valley style patrimonialism, and aren’t based on merit anymore.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#298

Post by kortilla »

alecco wrote: post #117
I_am_tiberius wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open weight!

Please don't slander the most open AI company in the world. Even more open than some non-profit labs from universities. DeepSeek is famous for publishing everything . They might take a bit to publish source code but it's almost always there. And their papers are extremely pro-social to help the broader open AI community. This is why they struggle getting funded because investors hate openness. And in China they strug…

It’s not slander to say something true. These are open weights, not open source. They don’t provide the training data or the methodology requires to reproduce these weights.

So you can’t see what facts are pruned out, what biases were applied, etc. Even more importantly, you can’t make a slightly improved version.

This model is as open source as a windows XP installation ISO.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#299

Post by Lionga »

slekker wrote: post #252
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

But remember to not ask about Taiwan!

Quit a bit better then made to bomb little girl schools in Iran.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#300

Post by thesmtsolver2 »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #289
elefanten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

The USA has one of the highest percentages of their population in prison. Even for minor stuff like beeing addicted to drugs. Looks pretty totalitarian to me.

Do you really trust China’s stats on prison population?

Note: you can have this conversation criticizing the US on a US website. Try criticizing Xi or the CCP or calling him Pooh on a Chinese website.

You think China doesn’t imprison drug users?

China recently executed a low level drug trafficker

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2026/04/05/c...

China is one of the top executioners. China executes more than rest of the world combined

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/04/china-must-co...

You think China is honest about political prisoners in Tibet and Xinjiang?

Criticize the US all you want but I can’t understand the whitewashing of a real totalitarian and genocidal state like mainland China.

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