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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

newyorker.com

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#551

Post by alexzhues »

rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

I don't think you read the article. It explains that those three members who came forward were not actually servers, but restaurant management & owners. Additionally, the article is not missing this issue you call out. The author goes so far as to discuss Casino dealers in Vegas who would stand to gain the most out of this sales tax proposal (sales commissions in your anecdote do not count as tips). But primarily, the author is concerned about the 1/3 of tipped workers who do not pay federal income tax and are at risk of falling below the poverty line due to reductions in their minimum wage.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#552

Post by [deleted] »

alexzhues wrote: post #551
rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

I don't think you read the article. It explains that those three members who came forward were not actually servers, but restaurant management & owners. Additionally, the article is not missing this issue you call out. The author goes so far as to discuss Casino dealers in Vegas who would stand to gain the most out of this sales tax proposal (sales commissions in your anecdote do not count as tips). But primarily, th…

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#553

Post by 9rx »

jghn wrote: post #541
pixelatedindex wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I also think it has blurred the lines even more, and exposes how arbitrary it is. Do I tip if I scan from a QR code and order, where I have almost no interactions with the server? How is it any different than counter service? All that changed is instead of self-service order it is self-service pickup. I probably still have to flag down a server to get utensils or water. Why did the tip percentage go up fr…

> Why did the tip percentage go up from 15% as the norm to like 18-20% Why did it go up from 10% to 15% 50+ years ago? And why did it go up from 18-20% to 22-25% in the last few years?

> And why did it go up from 18-20% to 22-25% in the last few years?

Especially when they removed the separate server minimum wage at the same time, meaning that servers both moved up into the regular minimum wage and gained in tipping culture.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#554

Post by JumpCrisscross »

alkonaut wrote: post #135
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who's getting tips in cash? About half of the large tips at high end restaurants in my town are cash. Sounds like it is about a third in New York. Especially if it is folks who work at a restaurant.

How is the trend? I imagine it’s already possible to estimate what year it will be almost zero from that trend. It also tends to accelerate: once a restaurant has very few cash customers they tend to become no-cash because the cost of cash handling is more than the potential loss of business. I’m unsure if there are any legal obstacles to going cashless in the US however. But where I live no one uses cash and more an…

> How is the trend?

Very stable, from what I can tell, though with significant regional variation.

> the cost of cash handling is more than the potential loss of business

High end restaurants will never be cashless. And you can cash tip at a cashless restaurant. The tip isn’t going to the business.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#555

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kergonath wrote: post #151
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave? Definitely the next time I come back. Restaurant workers should earn a good wage. Tipping should not be mandatory. But tips, in particular large tips, are fine and work globally.

You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person. It has the added bonus that when they greet you and "treat you better" (whatever you mean by that) next time you’ll know it’s not just because of your wallet.

> You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person

I do both. And I don’t always leave a large tip. If I’m having a good quarter or year, I’ll share it. If I’m not, I can’t.

At the end of the day, they’re running a business and I’m a customer. If we’re friends I’ll buy them dinner (and they’ll comp random stuff).

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#556

Post by JumpCrisscross »

itake wrote: post #189
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave? Definitely the next time I come back. Restaurant workers should earn a good wage. Tipping should not be mandatory. But tips, in particular large tips, are fine and work globally.

What do you think about the tip-free section in: https://www.mollymoon.com/icecreamforeveryone Quick summary: - Tipping results in lower pay for certain genders and races. - laws that protect employees don't apply to customers. Your boss can't make inappropriate comments and pay you less if you complain. But if a customer makes inappropriate comments, its perfectly legal for the customer to pay you less if you reject…

I don’t think any of this is fixed by banning tips.

As I said, tipping shouldn’t be mandatory nor required for someone to make a living serving, frankly, relatively wealthy people and experience.

If someone owns a restaurant, I can show gratitude by coming more. If my clients like me, they can show gratitude by giving me more business. If a server does a great job independent of their employer, a tip is a good way of showing that.

(That said, if a group of employees has agreed to no tips, they should refuse them and one shouldn’t push.)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#557

Post by ecb_penguin »

kergonath wrote: post #151
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave? Definitely the next time I come back. Restaurant workers should earn a good wage. Tipping should not be mandatory. But tips, in particular large tips, are fine and work globally.

You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person. It has the added bonus that when they greet you and "treat you better" (whatever you mean by that) next time you’ll know it’s not just because of your wallet.

> You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person.

Not mutually exclusive :)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#558

Post by 9rx »

jimt1234 wrote: post #548
pixelatedindex wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I also think it has blurred the lines even more, and exposes how arbitrary it is. Do I tip if I scan from a QR code and order, where I have almost no interactions with the server? How is it any different than counter service? All that changed is instead of self-service order it is self-service pickup. I probably still have to flag down a server to get utensils or water. Why did the tip percentage go up fr…

I'm old. For me, tipping has always been a cash-only transaction because I felt the money going directly into the server's or other staff's pockets. The owner of the business never touched the cash tips, and the tips were rarely reported (for taxes). But now, when I tip with one of those point-of-sale devices, I have no idea where that "tip money" is going - does it ever reach the server or other staff? Does the owne…

> Does the owner just pocket the "tip money"?

Not if they know what's good for them.

It is usually against the law to do so, and enforcement is extremely pro-labor, so the only chance you'd have to get away with it is if it got swept under the rug and nobody ever complained. But people who work in tipped positions are some of the most ruthless people you'll ever meet (you kind of have to be when tips are your bread and butter), so that's never going to happen in anything but made up fantasy.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#559

Post by WaitWaitWha »

voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

Tip before service is a bribe in my book.

(Uber started to pop up tip options before the ride ends, sometimes as soon as the ride starts.)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#560

Post by Eisenstein »

pc86 wrote: post #366
Eisenstein wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. What is also true is that having things delivered to you is not free, and the prices of the goods cannot be same for delivery vs warehousing in a store.

Sure it can. I'm not saying it's free but it's not a foregone conclusion that 100% (or any percent) of that cost must be passed on to the consumer. If a manufacturer/distributor/restaurant is willing to accept lower margins for the increased reach and market access, they will.

It cannot be the case because the business would cease to exist in their current form if they did that. They would close their retail stores and become online only, because there is now zero incentive for anyone to go to the store instead of ordering it and having it delivered.
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