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Do not download the app, use the website

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Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#551

Post by gargan »

kelthuzad wrote: post #411
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

>We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain to users how the website does everything an app can do. Still, constant requests for an app. This is the result of the inconsistent user experience to which gatekeepers like Apple have been actively contributing through active sabotage of web apps, such that all profitable apps can be more effectively and reliably taxed through Apple'…

Isn't the Mac way a good thing though? For example everything on Windows is moving to web apps where I feel they can load just as many trackers onto you eg https://www.theverge.com/news/710509/whatsapp-windows-app-we...

Whereas on Mac, Meta are keeping their native app presumably because they can't be in the Mac app store with just a web wrapper

But maybe I've just got the exact delusion youre talking about in that I view the app as having more functionality. Maybe they need to free web apps to be on a level playing field as you say

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#552

Post by micromacrofoot »

gcanyon wrote: post #535
rplnt wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

I refuse to use Facebook's app. It's been years, I don't remember why, don't ask me. Their web app is fundamentally broken in half a dozen ways, and has been for years. A couple examples (not all): If you are in the middle of typing a comment and switch to another app, when you come back, it will reload the display, losing your comment. Video shorts load in a way that hides the video after about two seconds. Editing…

Companies intentionally make their web experiences worse because they can track you better in apps. Even if the trackers are technically the same, even somewhat savvy people using blockers or browser protections generally don't use them on their phones.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#553

Post by dylan604 »

bornfreddy wrote: post #537
dylan604 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

moving beyond is usually what happens when something is furtheranced

It is - from the company point of view.

Isn’t that precisely the point with this thread? It’s all from the company’s perspective. They’ve just gaslit the users into thinking it is from the user’s perspective.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#554

Post by zabil »

greenchair wrote: post #527
zabil wrote: post #472

I’ve noticed that every time I open a browser to use the web version of an app, I get distracted and end up browsing unrelated stuff. Switching to a standalone app helps me avoid that — fewer distractions, less wasted time. I’ve tried breaking the habit, but this is one reason I still prefer desktop version of the website.

do you have the same problem at the grocery store?

Surprisingly, no. I make a list know the aisles, pick stuff. But it’s not the same case on the web.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#555

Post by WA »

8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #294

I don't offer a native app for my business. We have a PWA. It works great on mobile. Yet users keep asking for an app. They're so conditioned to look in the app store now. I keep having to tell them to just pin the website to their desktop. Just a couple taps. All good. I don't need or want their data. It's a liability. They pay a monthly subscription. I want their money. Not their data.

Are you leaving money on the table or is your business in such a niche that people will jump through hoops for the results?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#556

Post by scarface_74 »

zkmon wrote: post #515
scarface_74 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bank is that where you can’t log into their website from PC or mobile?

All European banks require you have the app to be able to do anything with your account. The is more of compliance/regulatory thing. And to login into my work, I need to first login into my laptop and then enter into a very elaborate way of login into VPN or company WiFi. VPN/WiFi login requires you to first login into company app on your mobile to get a temp password. The company app need to work with other auth app…

So this is as most things wrong with the EU and tech is about overzealous regulators..

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#557

Post by joenot443 »

kelthuzad wrote: post #411
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

>We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain to users how the website does everything an app can do. Still, constant requests for an app. This is the result of the inconsistent user experience to which gatekeepers like Apple have been actively contributing through active sabotage of web apps, such that all profitable apps can be more effectively and reliably taxed through Apple'…

> The manufactured perception of the general public then became that web apps are not "real apps" despite offering the exact same features

But they're not real apps, they're webpages. They are two different things, both very useful, but both very different.

It's a very good thing for a user to be aware that there's a real and important difference between a signed binary from the App Store which lives on their device and a blob of minified JS coming down from quite literally anywhere.

And they're correct to feel that way! Apps, when made correctly, feel way better to use! It's a bit surprising to me you attribute this preference for ""native"" apps to "whatever reason". I've always felt the difference was extremely stark and obvious, I couldn't imagine getting them confused. It seems you're a little misinformed with how most native apps are built; it's just not true that any meaningful number of apps you interact with regularly with "simply wrap their web app in a WebView." In fact, if you try to ship an app which does solely this (webpage in a WebView), Apple will reject it. Have you built any mobile apps, kelthuzad?

I encourage you to try Google Docs or Youtube from a mobile browser and observe whether you find differences between that and the native experience. I think you'll be surprised :)

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#558

Post by llm_nerd »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #192
llm_nerd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Ignoring that almost all of these orgs are also building web apps Poorly, but yes. You can say they have something reseming a web app. >several of the major frameworks can share the majority of code with PWA apps. But as we should all know, it's not enough to press a button and deploy perfectly. You gotta fix all thr quirks, and that's where most of the budget for a dedicated team back in the day went. Not so much t…

>But as we should all know, it's not enough to press a button and deploy perfectly. You gotta fix all thr quirks, and that's where most of the budget for a dedicated team back in the day went. Not so much these days.

Have you ever worked on a project that targets both Android and iDevices? Close to none of them are just one magical code base that hits both devices. Overwhelmingly there is an enormous amount of custom code for each platform. You are propping up a myth to support this ridiculous contention.

>75% isn't enough when targeting 100% of the market.

Only garbage apps target "100%" of the market with one app. Again, I feel like I'm talking to people who have never, ever touched a mobile app.

>Straight from the horses' mouth

You literally linked to the app policies. That has zero relevance for PWAs.

The fact that my upper level comment got flagged, hilariously, betrays how utterly delusional, detached from reality, and just nonsensical almost all discussions on this are. It is always portrayed against a mythical strawman (the magic "only one app magically targets everyone, that no one is actually doing it").

PWAs fail because they're usually bad, and web development teams usually have horrifying attitudes towards users. It has nothing to do with Apple.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#559

Post by kelthuzad »

threatofrain wrote: post #499
kelthuzad wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain to users how the website does everything an app can do. Still, constant requests for an app. This is the result of the inconsistent user experience to which gatekeepers like Apple have been actively contributing through active sabotage of web apps, such that all profitable apps can be more effectively and reliably taxed through Apple'…

There isn't just Apple, there's also Google which is a big promoter of PWA's, and in fact they popularized the term. PWA's just never took off.

> There isn't just Apple, there's also Google which is a big promoter of PWA's, and in fact they popularized the term.

Google is the primary champion of PWAs, they have a vested interest in its success. The reason I focused on Apple is because its actions are one of a profit-maximizing gatekeeper actively defending its most lucrative business against an existential threat that is PWA. Every bug, every delayed feature, and every artificial limitation imposed on PWAs on iOS is a calculated strategic move in this defense of its walled garden that makes maximum taxation possible.

>PWA's just never took off.

That's just the lazy manufactured and false narrative that I've already thoroughly debunked. I'm not going to repeat it, since you would just ignore it again.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#560

Post by andreasgl »

zkmon wrote: post #515
scarface_74 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bank is that where you can’t log into their website from PC or mobile?

All European banks require you have the app to be able to do anything with your account. The is more of compliance/regulatory thing. And to login into my work, I need to first login into my laptop and then enter into a very elaborate way of login into VPN or company WiFi. VPN/WiFi login requires you to first login into company app on your mobile to get a temp password. The company app need to work with other auth app…

> All European banks require you have the app to be able to do anything with your account. The is more of compliance/regulatory thing.

This is not true in Sweden. I use three different banks in Sweden, and they all offer equal or more functionality on their mobile version websites.

This wasn’t always the case, though. In the early 2010s, I remember a bank blocking mobile user agents and referring to their app instead, due to “security”. I’m glad there has been some progress in the right direction since then.

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