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Do not download the app, use the website

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Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#531

Post by AbstractH24 »

kaptainscarlet wrote: post #513
Einenlum wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when ChatGPT was released. I talked about it to a friend who is not technical. She said "oh wow, I really need to try it". She later said "I couldn't find the app in my AppStore". I kept saying they had a website and why would you need an app. She couldn't understand what I was saying. Seems like indeed the general public really likes apps and even thinks you can't do so many things in the browser.

Devs are usually disconnected from the average user's experience. I too used to be the same.

Weren't PMs supposed to fix this problem?

The dev's ambassador to the common man.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#532

Post by AbstractH24 »

W3zzy wrote: post #456
silisili wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is one of these people. We couldn't be more different in that regard. I loathe apps and generally only install them when there's no alternative. She seems to either not understand or trust websites, and wants an app. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Every time I grab her phone I get dizzy and lost from the hundreds of apps. When she grabs mine, she wonders how I accomplish anything at all.

Your wife probably just wants a smooth user experience and an app delivers on that. Apps have a clear way of installing and onboarding. I discovered that all our self hosted applications were easily adopted after I added SSO. My wife just wants one account to rule them all. I got her accustomed to installing web apps by adding all the links in a shared note. She clicks the link, pins the site and uses SSO to log in.…

> Your wife probably just wants a smooth user experience and an app delivers on that. Apps have a clear way of installing and onboarding.

To a certain extent, I fall in this camp. With privacy in general.

Without dedicating my life to it I won't be able to beat the system I live in, so why not just accept it and take what I can from it?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#533

Post by tempestn »

rplnt wrote: post #388
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

Many of those things are true in general, but fwiw I think we've done a decent job making the site fast and usable on mobile. It's comparable to the app in most ways, but many still prefer that.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#534

Post by AbstractH24 »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #171
dbtc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chase Mobile for iOS is 350MB; far from 500, but still baffling why an app would need to be that large just to show me some numbers. Capital One is 435MB... Garmin Connect is 518MB for some stupid reason, while Strava is half that and Gaia GPS (great app), is under 100.

Almost certainly has to do with how the app is built. Most thoughtfully built native SDK (UIKit, etc) apps clock in well under the 100MB mark, often under half or a quarter that. Bloat like that is usually due to unnecessarily convoluted tech stacks pulling in a list of dependencies that goes out to Mars and back, or for globally targeted apps sometimes it’s translations for everything in the app for hundreds of diff…

Whats the business case to invest in building these well and as small as possible?

Heck, if you are a world business and the app isn't your core value prop, whats your case for investing anything more than the bare minimum in creating your app?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#535

Post by gcanyon »

rplnt wrote: post #388
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

I refuse to use Facebook's app. It's been years, I don't remember why, don't ask me.

Their web app is fundamentally broken in half a dozen ways, and has been for years. A couple examples (not all):

If you are in the middle of typing a comment and switch to another app, when you come back, it will reload the display, losing your comment.

Video shorts load in a way that hides the video after about two seconds. Editing the URL to remove the parameters fixes this.

The layout of comments/posts often breaks, forcing me to switch to "ask for desktop version" to make one feature work, then switch back to "mobile version" to make another feature work. Neither is completely functional.

As I said, there are more. As I said, I don't even remember why I rejected their app, but at this point, if they can't make a mobile web site, why would I trust them to make an app?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#536

Post by tempestn »

ryukoposting wrote: post #470
rplnt wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

I think this is a much more accurate characterization, especially in AutoTempest's case. Their experience on mobile has always been slow and glitchy. I'm not sure what makes their web "app" so heavy, but it's very noticeable.

Can you share details? Or feel free to email me directly, nathan at autotempest. I'd like to learn more about your device, browser, and search criteria so we can try and reproduce what you described.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#537

Post by bornfreddy »

dylan604 wrote: post #287
thfuran wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have moved beyond that. Even if you pay, you’re usually still the product.

moving beyond is usually what happens when something is furtheranced

It is - from the company point of view.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#538

Post by wg0 »

Unfortunately - its easier said then done.

Specifically with offline first scenarios, you'll end up with lots of JS and client side shapes that need local persistence and sent back to server.

So while view transitions should be first consideration for always online apps such as ticketng system, price comparison, classified portals etc but they aren't probably that suitable for offline first scenarios that keep operating even in face of few days of Internet outage.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#539

Post by devnullbrain »

gcanyon wrote: post #535
rplnt wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

I refuse to use Facebook's app. It's been years, I don't remember why, don't ask me. Their web app is fundamentally broken in half a dozen ways, and has been for years. A couple examples (not all): If you are in the middle of typing a comment and switch to another app, when you come back, it will reload the display, losing your comment. Video shorts load in a way that hides the video after about two seconds. Editing…

>If you are in the middle of typing a comment and switch to another app, when you come back, it will reload the display, losing your comment.

This is the rule for a lot of apps and mobile websites now. I don't understand why - we have so much RAM available - but they love to refresh whether there's a reason to or not. And even if there's a reason not to. I can't count the number of times I've tapped on a tab that has a minature version of all the information I want, only for it to be replaced by a loading screen or 404.

A while ago I noticed my battery usage had gone way up. It was because any time I was distracted from my phone (or lost internet connection on a train), I would just leave the display on. Locking the phone meant that I'd lose whatever context I had.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#540

Post by dontlaugh »

beached_whale wrote: post #288
zholer wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true, but 99% of the apps don't generate any traffic at all :) If you look at the top 1% of apps, all of them could have been PWA's but can't. Here is a case study from aliexpress who achieved a 104% increase across all users for conversions when they deployed as a PWA: https://web.dev/case-studies/aliexpress

And Aliexpress is annoying as heck because they keep trying to redirect to app owned URI's for things like tracking. I'm already there to buy. The privacy of apps is just not as good as web with no benefit to me.

I think that's more cultural. Mobile apps are very much the default in China and websites are rarely used through a browser, but rather as mini-apps inside other apps.
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