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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't get enough attention, waaaay too many of these issues are traced back to the vendor trying to "prevent" someone from using their product in a way that they don't like.

The problem usually aren't vendors. The problem usually are rightsholders - the movie/TV series industry still didn't get the Spotify memo, and the console game industry... well it's hard to say they don't have a point insisting on serious DRM given how rampant piracy becomes once there's an easy-enough root method available.

> the movie/TV series industry still didn't get the Spotify memo

I'm not sure that's really a memo I'd like them to get. We don't need more subscription services where you don't get to own you content and everything can be taken away at any time.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The massive success of Steam points otherwise.

Steam is a very convenient and beloved marketplace but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a solid DRM and anti-cheat measures built in.

Steam's DRM is a joke. Removing it is as simple as replacing a library.

It also doesn't cause (intentional) incompatibility problems like HDMI DRM does.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#553
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft removed support for Skype on TV, not Samsung. Most apps get removed because the people writing them don't want to support them anymore. The Samsung framework from 2013 was always trouble and it doesn't support many current W3C features that you'd want as a developer. Most people I know are drawing the line at supporting 2014 or 2016 Samsung devices. Could Samsung update their devices to ensure they still su…

I hate this idea that software "rots" all by itself when it's just left on a device and is impossible to keep working. I would at the very, very least expect my device to work exactly as it did on day one, for the next 50 years, assuming I don't change the software. It's bits on a flash drive! It doesn't rot, outside some freak cosmic ray from space flipping a bit. If you're saying the software stops working because…

There are several examples I've seen of firmware on devices failing because of bit rot, so that's not true. We used to design devices so that the bootloader was pulled from NOR instead of NAND because of this. Then the device could be recovered using a USB stick.

Most people don't encounter it because their device was updated at least once. People should be less trusting in flash drives than they are, I recently pulled three USB flash sticks out of storage and two of the three are now unhappy.

There's a strong argument that consumer electronics should be able to be more incrementally upgraded. Including things like baseline upgrades for certificates. One of the things about TVs and these systems is that they are usually running on something like OverlayFS to avoid corruption of the base OS and enhancing security/integrity. They focus on replacing the underlying image, which is often security signed as well. If you screw something up with a device that's in a customers home then you're going to be spending a lot of money fixing it, the manufacturers have their war stories in this regard, so they're very risk adverse.

As for freezing the backend, you can't. Your API will evolve and for example if your database changes then your backend services will need to be touched. That database will change, some metadata or label will need to change. Even if you keep the API the same you'll need to maintain the legacy backend. Then you need that service running, consuming compute, for years even if there's hardly anyone using it and it's costing money. Then you need security patches for the backend service because the framework needs upgrading or the OS needs upgrading. Eventually the backend framework will be EoL/EoS and so you need to spend to upgrade. It's like saying we'll keep a Java backend running on a public facing API well beyond it's life, log4j anyone?

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If your company's threat model considers its own customers as attackers, you're the baddies.

Not always. There's a time and a place for including end users in your threat model. These would include scholastic and carceral settings, where in both cases the end user may, as an example, desire access to resources that have been deemed inappropriate.

I disagree that a software in a school setting should see students as adversaries. Cheating is a much higher level problem that is better dealt with education and negative reinforcement. After all, those students will need to become participants in a society where we definitely don't want this level of mutual distrust around every corner.

But in any case, students are usually NOT the customer here even if they are the end user.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Explain to me then how an Apple TV device for $125 (Retail! not BOM!) can be staggeringly faster and generally better than any TV controller board I've seen? This is the result of Apple being vertically integrated and reusing components from other product lines in products like Apple TV. The SoC used in the Apple TV are from lower-tier bins of chips produced for mobile applications. With the Apple TV, you are getti…

Budget mobiles phones exist, and make a profit. These have 4G radios, screens, batteries, cameras, and storage. There is no excuse for TV manufacturers when selling premium devices costing thousands of dollars.

Greater than 95% of the cost of a TV is in the panel.

TV panels must have a near 0% defect rate and a single piece of dust during the manufacture will render the finished panel e-waste. The bigger the panel the risk of a defect goes up exponentially because the surface area for any defect becomes bigger. It follows the same issue as to why chip companies introduced chiplets, the smaller die sizes improves the yield and they can throw away less silicon.

A TV panel is basically a 50in chip, and a mobile phone display is a 6in chip.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#556
post #370

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> 2. A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. Some sequence that resets the device completely back to the way it was when it came out of the box, firmware included, as a last resort. That's a nifty mechanism that also allows downgrade attacks, so it has cybersecurity implications that may or may not be acceptable. Furthermore, it might not be practical or even be possible to restore the system to factory cond…

Except when it comes to firmware, downgrade "attacks" are not attacks at all but just owners making use of THEIR devices. The real attack is the company trying to retain control over something they have sold.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#557
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked for Samsung, but I built TVs for JVC and LG, among many other brands. I don't work in consumer electronics anymore but a decade ago that was my field. TVs are a wildly unprofitable business. It's astoundingly bad. You get 4-6 months to make any profit on a new model before it gets discounted so heavily by retailers that you're taking a bath on each one sold. So every dollar in the BOM (bill of material…

Yeah, but is there a way for consumers to compare the compute performance of any given TV? If OEMs differentiated their TVs based on compute performance, consumers might be able to make an informed choice. (See smartphones: consumers expect a Galaxy Sxx to have faster compute than a Galaxy Axx.) If not, consumers just see TVs with similar specs at different prices, so of course they’re going to pick the cheaper one.

It's really hard to get these things across to consumers.

This is why we ended up with phrases like "Full HD".

The average consumer doesn't know what these numbers mean, people who read hackernews aren't the 99%. Phones have helped a little bit with widening the idea of newer = better, but ask the average person how many cores their phone is or how much RAM it has? They don't know.

Also, it's hard to benchmark TV performance as a selling point. Perhaps sites like rtings need to have UX benchmarks as well? They could measure channel change times, app load times, etc. That might create some pressure to compete.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#558

"We understand how frustrating an unresponsive soundbar can be." Isn't this about the most condescending thing they can start with?

It smells like corporate communication training. "Affirm the customer. Express that you hear their concerns and empathize"

Does this actually work on anyone though. It just always feels so artificial that it's off putting.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#559
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That point has practical issues, because most consumer electronic customers are technically dumb. It's a speaker that worked fine until Samsung unilaterally broke it. I don't think the customers are the dumb ones here.

Customers will gladly use an outdated browser or OS with known exploits to access their most sensitive information. Automated updates are necessary evil. Even a smart speaker with a vulnerability could end up as part of a botnet.

> Customers will gladly use an outdated browser or OS with known exploits to access their most sensitive information.

Because the alternative is worse. It's up to companies to provide security-only updates that customers can trust and will CHOOSE to install.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the answer always "bugfixes and increased stability"? :)

Bricking a device does make it really stable and bugfree. Sadly also featureless.

The TOS probably has a line about no features being guaranteed somewhere so that's fine.
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