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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

statecraft.beehiiv.com

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally all they have to do is limit the maximum loan size. Max $50k per year. Anything beyond that is not subsidized or requires proof of academic performance or ability to repay.

How about a tuition capped at the median salaries of its graduates?

There goes philosophy, music, and many other liberal arts degrees.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#552
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different from the current system? People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding. Kids from ideal backgrounds don’t take out loans. If you’re saying schools get a blank check via grants and scholarships, then I’m not seeing how that fixes the issue. This problem feels super similar to the Us health care system. Those with blank checks for pre-negotiated prices (have health…

> People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. I applied to college in 2011 with a household income of like 95k, with an older sibling already in college, and most "financial aid" packages from state universities added up to between $60k-$1…

I am still not understanding how offering blank checks to more people (mid-income) will fix the problem of sky rocketing tuition.

Assuming this is a Supply vs Demand problem, blank checks to more people will increase the demand for the services, but does not modify supply or competition for the demand.

Increasing demand with static supply will keep tuition increasing.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a tuition capped at the median salaries of its graduates?

There goes philosophy, music, and many other liberal arts degrees.

There would just be fewer students in this major, they wouldn’t disappear entirely.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It just takes longer to train a physician because there are human lives at stake. Airbags? Our electrical infrastructure? Our plumbing? Please, there are plenty of of industries that have lives at stake and we don't have a cartel controlling the supply of people. The issue is that we don't have enough Physician(By design), so they need to operate independently. Any other industry has multiple layers of qualified peo…

I don’t want to trivialize the amount of work that goes into airbags, electrical infrastructure, or plumbing. However, the human body is much more complicated. Would you trust the life of a loved one who, God forbid, has cancer or needs surgery to a person with a fraction of the education and training physicians receive? By the way, I’m reminded of a joke: a doctor called a plumber for a faucet leak. The plumber fixe…

> Would you trust the life of a loved one who, God forbid, has cancer or needs surgery to a person with a fraction of the education and training physicians receive?

False dichotomy.

Right now the ACGME limits the number of residents. This causes a lower supply, so instead of having 6 surgeons working on you, you have 1-3. Do you only want a few people fresh from residency working on you? Or a bunch of physicians with various experience?

Also, plot twist, we own a medical company. (not physicians, but a different cartel that is paid way less and got a pay cut since 2016) You can treat 7 people per 37 minutes, each paying between $40-$125. Physicians is way worse, you can charge $250 for 5-10 minutes.

(Note that this ignores documentation costs/times, but it should give you an order of magnitude to play with.)

We don't do that blatant 7 people per 37 minutes, its more like 1 person per every 60 minutes, but as the clinic grows we've had 2 people per 60 minutes out of necessity. The hospital/other clinics do this.

I need to do an AMA on owning a medical clinic. My wife, the primary doctor, isnt exactly happy that I bite the hand that feeds. We already lost our chiropractor referrals because I couldn't handle their mysticism and spoke out against it.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#555
This data is what I used to convince my parents were very much anti-student loan forgiveness (we paid ours so you get to suffer too), that a certain level of it is appropriate. I honestly don’t think a lot of people realize just how bad its gotten. Couple this with the fact that somehow budget is limiting the number classes being offered with the extra 1.5 semesters on average of additional general education requirements, and you’ve created a system that predates new adults, pushing them underwater from the start. A bit ironic that we’ve had the lowest wage growth in 60+ years just as the cost to get a degree, the default requirement for almost any job, skyrocketed. These loans students took out to go to university cannot be dismissed and will follow you until the day you die. This debt bondage of people just turning 18, is pure horseshit. We supposedly outlawed indentured servitude but it’s still style alive and well, and our machiavellian, geriatric congress in the US has offered nothing besides cruel indifference, useless excuses, and is distracted arguing about shit like drag performance and bathrooms? Like what the fuck.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only governments could make…laws to restrict the price of University. Or…could limit the maximum loan size thus encouraging Universities to not charge more than that.

Price controls are one of the few things that economists on both sides of the political aisle agree do not work, and/or have unintended consequences which are worse than the problem they attempt to resolve. https://www.econlib.org/the-consensus-on-price-controls/

Seems to work well in the UK. Fees are set by the government and the government provides the loans. Private Uni's can set their own price but the government loan will only only fund about £6k (£3k less than the public Uni fee). Because of this, many private Uni's set their fees at £6k and then make their money on international students.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#557

One thing that was mentioned in the article, but which seems to be missing from the discussion is the decrease in state funding for higher education. When I was looking for colleges in the 80s, the most expensive private schools were on the order of $20K all in. Those same schools are on the order of $85K all in, which is an increase of "only" (hah) 450%. However, my alma mater (SUNY Buffalo) has increased in-state t…

Take home after taxes is only 77% at $15/hr or $1830/month if working 40 hours/week https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-paycheck-calculator#eI... As of July 2023, the average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment in SUNY College Purchase, NY is $2,696. This is a 12% increase compared to the previous year. https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/near-suny-college-purch...

Minor quibble: the tax rate is a touch lower if you don't work year round. If you earn $10.8k in a calendar year, you'll take home 81%.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#558
post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

https://shrewdcuriosity.medium.com/why-has-college-gotten-so...

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#559
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world have businesses shown the ability to be responsible with money?

I did put is quotes !! .. meaning that it is something that has been said, not something that is true in itself.

Fair! I wrongly read that as an endorsement of the idea.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me. Businesses make way more money than an individual, so why charge the individual more APR? And PPP really should not have been forgivable - if you run a business, then it’s your responsibility to have enough money in the coffers to survive any economic downturns. Individuals get punished way more harshly than businesses when things go south.

That's not really true imho. If we are going to be pedantic and talk about the pandemic, almost all taxpayers received individual stimulus checks in the thousands. On top of that those with children received a lot more. The vast majority of PPP loans went to small business and it was to make up for the government shutting down parts of the economy (it wasn't simply an economic downturn). I don't agree with how hastil…

I would kill for such a low interest rate. I graduated soon after the financial crisis and the cheapest loan I had was 4.88%, with the average being 6%, and some were even 8%. I can (could have?) finance a car for cheaper, which is a bit ridiculous to me. Personally, there should be a cap or a set interest rate for education loans but I understand that it’s a contentious statement.

Yeah there were stimulus checks, and I saw a lot of people say something like “wow look at all these handouts people are getting, they don’t deserve it all!” but then they turn around and say the PPP was the greatest thing ever and businesses deserved them.

I think we are too critical of individual choices nowadays, but not critical enough of the terrible choices that businesses make. That’s probably the gist of my discontent.

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