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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#211

Post by pclmulqdq »

jedberg wrote: post #145
treeman79 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper solution is government to stop guaranteeing the loans and to allow people to put them in bankruptcy. Prices will collapse to what people are willing to pay in real time, or save up for.

That's how things used to be. It means that only rich people can go to college, because they are the only ones who can afford it. Prices can only come down so far. The college still has to pay professors and maintain facilities. There needs to be a middle ground where we support poor but promising students in a way that doesn't inflate prices. I don't know what that solution is.

Now that we have a student loan system, I'm sure that the students who are good bets will continue to have access to credit. You would be insane to not give a student loan to an MIT CS student, for example.

Also, prices should fall a lot, making school a lot more affordable.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#212

Post by codedokode »

raz32dust wrote: post #168
codedokode wrote: post #148

Could it be because in capitalism, the seller tries to take as much money as possible from buyer and the price is not related to expenses? Let me give an example that can illustrate this: a typical mobile plan from Verizon in US costs $45/month and gives you 15 Gb of traffic. At the same time in Russia one can get 30 Gb for $9/month. Are expenses for maintaining a cell network 5 times higher in US? Unlikely. It is ju…

I was with you until "It is just customers in US are richer and are ok to pay more for the same service." How did you reach that conclusion? The other reason (which seems more likely to me) is that it is because the free market is not functioning because of monopoly/duopoly created by regulatory capture.

Let me explain. If a Russian mobile provider would ask customers to pay $45 starting next month, then majority of users would say: "No thanks, I don't really need mobile data that much. Also by law you must provide us with free access to VK (social network) anyway so it makes no sense to pay you $45 for this". But is US, customers are paying and do not complain, because for them it is not that big price. This is what I meant by "customers are ok".

Yes, mobile providers market is not a free market, as there are small number of companies both in US and in Russia. But the price they charge customers is different in these countries despite they use similar equipment which probably has the same cost. So the difference in prices can be explained by what people in different countries consider "cheap" and "expensive". The provider charges as much as possible, but less than a customer would consider "too expensive".

And the same thing is about housing prices, they do not really correlate with expenses to build them. It takes the same amount of money to build an apartment in Moscow and in a small city in Siberia, but the price for the buyer will be very different.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#213

Post by pixelatedindex »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135
GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lenders that are taking on too much risk The lenders are taking no risks since these loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. There are also very large late fees and penalties that can triple (or more) the amount owed.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

I’m a newbie, what’s a CDO?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#214

Post by macdaknife »

kortilla wrote: post #151
tempsy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's $8k a year. that wouldn't even cover rent for a school year at this point. i think a lot of people seem to believe that the federal government is handing out $50k+ a school year when theres a very small limit. people who need to borrow likely have to tap private lenders.

Please stop. You’re completely misinformed here on how much is available for students to loan. I know multiple people that took out massive PLUS loans from the government that carry interest, are not discharged in bankruptcy, and far exceeded the limits you are talking about ($70k a year for grad schools).

I would also add that a lot of loans end up rolled up into a package, which you are given no forbearance.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#215

Post by [deleted] »

dpierce9 wrote: post #50
londons_explore wrote: post #3

Main cause: Government-backed student loans. While it is technically the student paying, in reality the money is going (indirectly) from the federal reserve to the universities. Everyone loves free government money... The fact the student may never pay off those loans (and hence the government foots the bill) is the cherry on top.

I will say it again: Private high school costs have also gone up astronomically and there are no federal loans for them. [0] https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-private-school

[deleted]

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#216

Post by hospitalJail »

ralmidani wrote: post #136
hospitalJail wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no don't let the Physician cartel get out of this. Year over year they get at least 5% pay increases with US tax dollars. Not to mention, they get private pay increases by weaponizing the ACGME to keep residency slots low. Residency does not need to be paid. Outside of the Medical industry, people pay for their college. For some reason Physicians make tax payers pay for their education and a decent salary.

Medical school is education, and in the US it’s astronomically expensive (some people graduate with half a million dollars of debt). Residency is more like on-the-job training (a hospital still makes money when a resident sees and treats you). It just takes longer to train a physician because there are human lives at stake. Yes, teaching fellows and others in academia are often taken advantage of and work for free, b…

>It just takes longer to train a physician because there are human lives at stake.

Airbags?

Our electrical infrastructure?

Our plumbing?

Please, there are plenty of of industries that have lives at stake and we don't have a cartel controlling the supply of people. The issue is that we don't have enough Physician(By design), so they need to operate independently. Any other industry has multiple layers of qualified people checking to make sure things are safe.

I kind of dream of a world where you'd have 1 physician and a physician manager and a physician director all looking at your paperwork. Instead you get 1 total.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#217

Post by verteu »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #160
vkou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding directly by issuing a blank check to the vendors? No, it won't. Funding directly by setting a price cap, and paying vendors that amount for services rendered? Seems to work for almost every other developed country in the world . With the monetary savings of #2, it could even give every medical student a fully free ride.

> Seems to work for I love when someone says "seems to work". In the strict sense, that only ever means "does something". Not necessarily "does what someone wants"... and never "does what I want". When it works for those other countries, does it "do what you want"? Because it doesn't "do what I want" at all. > With the monetary savings of #2, it could even give every medical student a fully free ride. Won't someone t…

I suspect GP is referring to the fact that the US has the one of the worst health outcomes per dollar spent vs peer countries [1] [2].

If "better health outcomes per dollar" is not "what you want" -- how come?

[1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare... [2] https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/wh...

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#218

Post by malfist »

RyanAdamas wrote: post #205

Accreditation Boards Textbook Publishers University Tuition It's a triangle scheme where one feeds the other and it's all fueled by non-dischargeable government loans. Student Loans are the hill to die on. As someone who isn't eligible for Military Service, I don't get supplemental housing, free healthcare, free college education, hiring preferences, small business loan preferences, nor a lifetime of "OH THANK YOU FO…

> can't join the drunken sexfest that is modern military service

Wait, what did I miss?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#219

Post by boeingUH60 »

Xeronate wrote: post #162
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

Seems wrong to influence your son's decision based on your financial situation rather than his desires/passions. Of course if he's naturally interested in the trades then sure.

Passion doesn't pay the bills. It's good to be passionate about something, but many passions are not marketable.

Many have drowned in student debt following their passions, but this wouldn't be so in many countries that have university education fully covered or significantly subsidized by taxes.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#220

Post by arrosenberg »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #213
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

I’m a newbie, what’s a CDO?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation

You take a bunch of loans and bundle them together and securitize the bundle to sell to the public. Mortgage CDOs crashed the global economy in 2007-8.

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