Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#551

Post by bobthepanda » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #477

netcan wrote: post #325

What's missing here, IMO, is a party. Who's with him? Do you have defectors from the 2 parties? Independents or popular figures joining up? Candidates being stood? A political party is not a manifesto, it's an organisation. I actually think there's room for a party to start gaining ground in the US. There are so many elected offices that the surface area is huge. Great for "guerilla tactics." IE, earning easy victori…

There is no room for a third party to start gaining ground in the US. We already have a third and fourth party - the Libertarian and Green parties - that have been trying to gain traction for years. Neither has been able to. The Greens came the closest with Nader in 2000. The reason for that is structural. The Democratic and Republican parties have structurally built themselves into the election system in a way that…

The problem is strategy.

Going for broke by running a presidential candidate is a surefire way to lose, and no one really donates to parties that lose. Which is a problem, because presidential campaigns cost a crapton of money; Bernie 2016 cost $220M and that was the primary.

If you look at successful third or fourth parties in FPTP nations, they are generally running lots of local campaigns, which are cheaper, give a place to train a talent pool, and also show voters proof that they can get a job done. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a formal third party running for local positions near me. And in this role they can serve as kingmaker; they may never get the top job, but in a perenially razor-thin Senate margin and a currently thin House margin they could certainly lord a lot of power even with a handful of seats.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#552

Post by horns4lyfe » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

Sounds like a pretty run-of-the-mill politician, maybe he'll hack it in D.C. after all. There's nothing wrong with giving your time to improving your community, but if you're devoting any part of your life to a politician, you're begging to be taken advantage of.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#553

Post by dlivingston » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #180

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

It reminded me of "twirling towards freedom": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:The_Simpsons/Character_... I hadn't realised just how much Macron's party materialized from nowhere. Must have been huge pent-up demand for an alternative. However I suspect that only works in systems that aren't FPTP in the first place, and I suspect Macron is going to the same nowhere that all American third-party candidates go. Espe…

I have nothing substantive to add, but: here’s the clip of the quote referenced [0] and a larger clip containing most of that Treehouse of Horror skit [1]. Classic Simpsons is the “soul food” of American TV IMHO.

[0]: https://youtu.be/HqjhHVUzl8o

[1]: https://youtu.be/sGvTzIOSFyc

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#554

Post by QuercusMax » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

frankbreetz wrote: post #465

realce wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a billionaire, very meagerly "rich"

Wow, you are right[0]! I don't think I would even call him rich. [0] https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/democr...

How can he possibly be worth only $600K? That doesn't even seem possible. What did he do with all the money he made?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#555

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #532

winternett wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections now are generally 2 people with influence, connections, and wealth (or someone that can be exploited as a puppet) that are chosen by financial backers to win, and a remaining pool of stooges and fake implants meant to take votes away from either of the 2 people mentioned prior. Everything else, including the idea that an honest candidate can "climb out of nowhere" and win hearts and votes, is a pipe dream b…

I think Ross Perot with his own money obviously was able to climb out of nowhere to get 18% in the general. The two party duopoly ganged up on him and the Reform Party (as he was opposed to their globalization) and quashed any opportunity for him to succeed. These parties don’t shoot themselves in the foot, they adapt to and coöpt any threat.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#556

Post by rchaud » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #484

realce wrote: post #353

I raised over 400k for Andrew's POTUS run and devoted a year of my life to running his official Reddit (104k subs at peak), then joined a SuperPAC to further his positions after the run. The campaign team was full of fools who squandered almost every good turn received, most campaign workers were paid less than minimum wage, and Andrew eventually stole the pac's name and branding - Humanity Forward - put everyone out…

Appreciate the insight. Even if all of this is true and I have no reason to think its not, I will still cast my vote for someone from his party most likely; assuming the candidate is remotely palatable. I think the country needs a valid third party as a reaction to the extremes of both current parties taking more power and influence. A third party would optimally pull both parties back towards the center assuming tha…

Andrew Yang has never held office. If one election campaign is enough to turn him into a typical politician, what does that say about his value as a prospective public servant?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#557

Post by gmueckl » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

stormking wrote: post #520

gmueckl wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NZ voting system looks very much like the German system to me. And while that system certainly has its flaws (e.g. when a party has more directly voted members than seats from the overall proportion of votes), it does respect a higher number of cast votes than FPTP. Any vote in FPTP that wasn't cast for the winning local candidate is lost. In MMP, every vote for a party influences the result in every case.

As a german I can tell you that not being able to get rid of certain people because they will always re-enter parliament via party list is annoying as hell.

The intended way to do that is to join a party and try to work towards that from within. Parties are required to have democratic internal processes including voting on the candidate lists. But let's face it - only people with political ambitions of their own will even think about that.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#558

Post by wonderwonder » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #556

wonderwonder wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the insight. Even if all of this is true and I have no reason to think its not, I will still cast my vote for someone from his party most likely; assuming the candidate is remotely palatable. I think the country needs a valid third party as a reaction to the extremes of both current parties taking more power and influence. A third party would optimally pull both parties back towards the center assuming tha…

Andrew Yang has never held office. If one election campaign is enough to turn him into a typical politician, what does that say about his value as a prospective public servant?

Nothing really, I think people are turned into politicians because most of them have no idea how to run a campaign as its pretty specialized knowledge. They rely on campaign managers to really do everything. Again, while I like Yang or at least the platform he espouses, I am not going to vote for his party because I expect massive change or some sort of feel good reaction. I just want a viable third party to balance the other 2 parties that I currently am very much not a fan of. A third party will optimally bring the other 2 parties closer to center which is where I am. Right now I just vote for the party I dislike the least. If the end result is a 3rd party I dislike but less than the other two then that's an improvement.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#559

Post by michaelt » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #469

netcan wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's planning on endorsing candidates in other parties, that's probably an option. OTOH, why take on all that baggage when it doesn't come with any votes? Probably makes more sense to recruit former LP and Green figures to run under the new banner.

You think it’s going to be easier to start a new party vs one that’s had growing support for over a decade and aligns with many of his values?

You mean this political party here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcllE7fx8-I

That.... doesn't look like a party that's planning to appeal to centrists.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#560

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Oct 06, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #538

hef19898 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case some founding fathers, quite literally. Or rather who you own works for you as long as they exist.

If the anti-slavery states hadn’t compromised with the slave ones, the Revolution would have failed. Slavery would have likely existed longer because the British would end up being allied to the slave states (likely still colonies.) Nothing is more nauseating that modern people looking upon the past with moral superiority.

Didn't the British abolish slavery before the US?