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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#551
post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

The practice of Christianity is primarily about repentance. We none of us have full control over our behaviour but we always have the ability to correct our hearts by swallowing our pride and accepting divine forgiveness. And we are obliged to forgive others who have repented.

Wokeness doesn't understand this. It sees people, woke and Christians both, as hypocrites. And we are! This is because it's necessary to advocate ideal moral standards, even the ones we ourselves are incapable of meeting.

However, if someone posts 'hate speech' somewhere this will always be held against them by the woke. So, yes, wokeness does not forgive. There is no mercy.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#552
post #6

Fundamentally languages have been evolving in a reductive manner, which is why adding syllables to terms like in "Latino/Latina -> Latin-x -> Latinx+" won't last. People will quickly eschew these terms for things that are easier to pronounce. There's no malice in this - just a natural evolution of language towards efficiency. As such its an endless cycle: new stuff is introduced to everyday language then reduced to s…

Gendered nouns are kind of silly and antiquated when you think about it though, and many languages have a neuter gender too (e.g. German). The "X" suffix is an attempt by younger Spanish speakers to introduce a neuter gender to their native language. English doesn't have gendered nouns, but we do have gendered pronouns, which not all languages have. Chinese doesn't have gendered pronouns, which is why you'll often he…

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#553
post #507

I think "wokeness" comes not so much from "safetyism" but from a generation who were educated to be critical of their own society. They were raised and educated by ex-hippies, who had successfully critiqued the post-war US. I think this was a pedagogical crime (raising children to be critical). Every generation is supposed to critique its predecessor but teaching critique to children from a young age robbed them of t…

I agree that teaching kids to be critical of one sliver of reality, while uncritically absorbing anything from another sliver is a pedagogical crime. What we ought to be teaching is critical thinking.

Kids need to be socialized in the ideas and values that make their civilization successful. Critical thinking is one piece of that, but we focus too much on it in elite environs. We also need to teach kids to tend to the edifice of civilization we’ve built, not just how to tear pieces of it down.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#554
post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may personally believe in mercy and grace and not forcing people to be Christian, but historically, the entire reason Christianity is so prevalent is Christians traveled to other continents with guns and forcibly slaughtered or enslaved the natives if they didn't convert and took their children away and forced them into Christian schools. Whatever you think of "wokeness," it isn't anywhere near a level of world-c…

> the entire reason Maybe it’s a teeny weeny more complex than that? Plenty of cultures and religions that did the same don’t exist any more. So I don’t think killing heretics and taking their children is a guarantee to success for a religion.

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#555
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> meritocracy A core problem is what this means. A lot of people insist that we previously lived in a meritocracy and that things like admissions tests are pure representations of this meritocracy, so that moving away from these systems is an attack on a purely level playing field of meritocracy. But we don't all agree with this. The same people who you criticize do not agree that we have achieved equality of opportu…

Yes, this is a common strawman. Noone (sensible) is claiming that any system is a meritocracy. "Meritocracy" is just an ideal, like "equality", "fairness", or "airplanes not crashing", and it's unlikely we'll ever achieve this ideal, but that doesn't make it not worth fighting for. So, while obviously objective exams aren't "meritocracy", they are without doubt more meritocratic than not having objective exams. If "t…

> So, while obviously objective exams aren't "meritocracy", they are without doubt more meritocratic than not having objective exams.

This is where we disagree dramatically. And this is why it is so frustrating to have people tell me that I "hate excellence" for supporting policy changes. By holding this assumption it enables you to both

1. Hold that meritocracy is an ideal

2. Conclude that people pushing for changes must oppose meritocracy

But I simply do not agree. To me, admissions exams are like the Leetcode interviews that people decry here. The test something, but that thing is largely disconnected from actual work and instead just becomes an obstacle course.

> If "these people" really wanted to move towards greater meritocracy (as opposed to abandoning meritocracy), they'd support things like, abolishment of "extracurricular activities" in college admissions, or legacy admissions, or maybe even things China's limit on the amount of tutoring kids can do (I personally thing this is both too extreme and ultimately counterproductive, but at least we can all agree that it's with the right goal in mind - increasing meritocracy).

I am involved in local politics to change the admissions program for a public magnet school. "Woke" activists proposed a merit lottery, a system where all students who met a minimum GPA and math-level requirement could be entered into a random lottery for admissions. This was criticized by opponents for being "anti-meritocratic" and even "racist against asians".

The eventually enacted policy maintains a "holistic" application, which does not consider race but does include these other topics. This received precisely the same criticism from opponents. Activists on the "woke" side preferred the merit lottery to this outcome.

So what I see here is that activists, at least in the situations that I am personally involved in, do support things like the abolishment of extracurricular activities in admissions systems.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#556
post #6

Fundamentally languages have been evolving in a reductive manner, which is why adding syllables to terms like in "Latino/Latina -> Latin-x -> Latinx+" won't last. People will quickly eschew these terms for things that are easier to pronounce. There's no malice in this - just a natural evolution of language towards efficiency. As such its an endless cycle: new stuff is introduced to everyday language then reduced to s…

I speak Spanish and frequently talk to native speakers from all over Latin America, given that I use Spanish in my job and have a number of Latin friends. I’ve still yet to meet a native speaker who likes “Latinx”, although I did hear one on the radio once. (A college student).

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> part of their program Who's they? Name names.

Goldman Sachs is happy to sponsor floats for the gay pride parade (which incidentally is by now a huge commercial opportunity anyways), they were far less happy about the Occupy Wallstreet movement.

Does that really imply any sinister motive? There are plenty of gay people working at Goldman; probably not many anti-capitalists.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#558

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

Anecdotally, in the startup where I worked there was one summer in 2017 when 3 white women (a significant percent of the women in the office at the time) all suddenly came out as non-binary and asked to be called they/them. If that's not some kind of freaky bandwagon thing going on then I don't know what is. It was like a competition to see who could get the most oppression points or something. Now I'm in a different…

The LGB alliance, and transphobic feminism more generally, is a hate movement with far-right, antisemitic ties.

https://transsafety.network/posts/gcs-and-the-right/

Also, your statement about trans people having a "lack of self-acceptance" is laughably incorrect. Coming out as trans is one of the most radical acts of self-acceptance there is.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the core principles of being woke require ruthlessness (“silence is violence”, etc).

I think in some cases silence is violence. For example, the silence of ones witnessing co workers when a woman tries to report being sexually harassed in her workplace. Like if a woman describes witnesses to her being groped by a co worker, and all the witnesses just shrug and say nothing to defend her, that workplace has in effect allowed sexual harassment to occur and condones continued harassment of women. That be…

> woman describes witnesses to her being groped by a co worker, and all the witnesses just shrug and say nothing

Surely they are only alleged witnesses until they testify?

How else do you tell the difference between a witness who actually saw nothing? [Or do you just declare that scenario to not exist?]

And that there is the violence in the woke - no due procedure. If the claimant said it happened, then it happened - let's move on to sentencing.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#560
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, in the startup where I worked there was one summer in 2017 when 3 white women (a significant percent of the women in the office at the time) all suddenly came out as non-binary and asked to be called they/them. If that's not some kind of freaky bandwagon thing going on then I don't know what is. It was like a competition to see who could get the most oppression points or something. Now I'm in a different…

Interesting, i think the same is happening in France, a schism between cis and trans of the LGBTQ community. For what it's worth, i think the gender fight in the media is not worth it for anybody. I dont see an end anytime soon, and i'd rather have gay marriage settle, add counseling in schools for kids who need it, and then maybe the LGBTQ+ community can start fighting this gender fight. Transversal fights are surel…

The LGB alliance, and transphobic feminism more generally, is a hate movement with far-right, antisemitic ties.

https://transsafety.network/posts/gcs-and-the-right/

I am a trans person and quite frankly your suggestion to wait in line is deeply insulting.

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