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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#511

Post by cblconfederate »

Is there anything that didn't eventually jump out of academia into "real life"? If you can control academia you control everything.

I think it's interesting to consider how wokism came to be so prevalent in academia, even if it seems like it should be a small niche. Sociologists should be able to find the roots of that shift, i think a lot of it has to do with increased (and sometimes unjustified) focus on the role of women in academia, and the need to accomodate more immigrants than ever before. There might even be deeper reasons that only Carl Jung could identify.

> “What you’re seeing is Gen Z or young millennials basically engaging in this collective war against the boomers and the Gen Xers who actually run the organisations,” says Antonio García Martínez

I think that's the wrong way to explain it. The case is that GenZ are using the GenXers who are running this institutions to impose their however-fringe opinions on others of their own generation. GenZ do not appear to defy the power structures that were built in academiadecades and decades ago. Things like closed academic publishing or funding allocation have not been overhauled despite the existence of alternatives. Progress in these seems to follow the regular pattern of one funeral at a time

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#512

Post by christophilus »

slibhb wrote: post #507

I think "wokeness" comes not so much from "safetyism" but from a generation who were educated to be critical of their own society. They were raised and educated by ex-hippies, who had successfully critiqued the post-war US. I think this was a pedagogical crime (raising children to be critical). Every generation is supposed to critique its predecessor but teaching critique to children from a young age robbed them of t…

I agree that teaching kids to be critical of one sliver of reality, while uncritically absorbing anything from another sliver is a pedagogical crime. What we ought to be teaching is critical thinking.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#513

Post by projektfu »

concordDance wrote: post #205
timonoko wrote: post #112

More weird is that Merican Wokeness is replacing *ness in other countries. Finnish has only one personal pronoun for all sexes, but Woke Finns add American Pronouns to their twitter pages.

The way American values have spread all around the world and started supplanting the native values is upsetting. Everything from commercialism and employment to attitudes towards nakedness and violence.

The way “American values” have come to dominate America is upsetting. It used to be a diverse country with very different social geography in different regions. Now it’s mostly strip malls, chain stores and freeways, and most of it looks the same.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#514

Post by GavinMcG »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #451
p0d wrote: post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

Under the woke philosophy the criterion for deserving forgiveness still exists but is changed. In classical Christian philosophy, forgiveness requires contrition whereas under woke philosophy forgiveness requires powerlessness . This is often misinterpreted as an absence of forgiveness because no amount of contrition seems to abate the condemnation.

I think you're redefining things. Since no amount of contrition abates the condemnation, there is an absence of forgiveness. Powerlessness doesn't abate the condemnation either, after all.

Instead, these people who refuse to forgive do so because they feel that forgiveness has been used to excuse abuse (read broadly) and to keep abusers in power. In other words, it's all about power, and forgiveness just doesn't feature.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#515

Post by UncleMeat »

babyshake wrote: post #28

It definitely seems as though specifying your preferred gender pronouns is no longer optional. This is required "in solidarity". Being an otherwise progressive person, I don't feel great about this and how quickly it happened.

My wife is a history professor at a major university. Literally in the belly of the beast as far the reactionaries are concerned. Specifying gender pronouns there remains optional, for both students and faculty. Many people do it willingly but it is not universal.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#516

Post by praestigiare »

p0d wrote: post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

There is a significant difference in that woke, like SJW, is for the most part a derogatory term. It would be as if the word "christian" was a word created by athiests specifically to refer to those who did not practice what they preached. Any discussion of the merits of "wokeness" is approaching the subject in a biased and unproductive way.

I would suggest that those you would describe as woke have, on average, just as much belief in the importance of mercy and grace as you do, and would likely believe they have more. The difference is who is seen as worthy of that grace and mercy. Is it grace to allow someone who has made unwanted sexual advances in the workplace a second chance? Or is it mercy to those who were victimized to remove the problem? Obviously this is a crude and simplified example, as examples often are, but it illustrates the point.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#517

Post by tgv »

slibhb wrote: post #507

I think "wokeness" comes not so much from "safetyism" but from a generation who were educated to be critical of their own society. They were raised and educated by ex-hippies, who had successfully critiqued the post-war US. I think this was a pedagogical crime (raising children to be critical). Every generation is supposed to critique its predecessor but teaching critique to children from a young age robbed them of t…

You may have a point. I’ve always seen it as a desperate attempt to be on the right side of history, but there are so few causes of importance left. Of course, with post-modernism and linguistic relativity added to the mix.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#518

Post by foolinaround »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #452
clusterfish wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But lots of people want that power. And most of us agree that it's bad. But most of us somehow don't agree that forcing wokeness on others is bad. Because the woke ones can't possibly imagine being wrong. Theirs is the right way, everyone else are bigots and racists. It's an aggressive religion, a cult even.

That’s only the woke people you hear about. I consider myself pretty woke and the only woke thing I could imagine to demand from a workplace is sexual harassment policies with real teeth. (And not a he said she said scenario but Eg. Dont pinch the ass of your direct report against their consent or else you’re out of the door). I think there are people who take it too far just like there are people who take anything t…

> sexual harassment policies with real teeth

Was'nt sexual harassment recognized as wrong much before this 'woke' thing became popular...

What then did 'woke' bring to the table?

Increased awareness? action without trial? -- even here we have a mixed bag, we want some trial of sorts, otherwise accusations would fly all over.

Those who rail against 'woke' are not railing in favor of the perpetrators in the me-too cases.

In many solutions, there are pros and cons of policies, and quite hard to just nail them.

The rational people among both those who are woke and those opposed -- should identify those that are clearly detrimental to society without equivalent benefits.

One such group - the influence of the college administrators -- comes to mind. This segment is already a major cause of college fees inflation, and now is also identified in bolstering the extreme woke actions. Also, because they are management, they are not going to fix themselves.

This is where external actors need to step in to clean up the mess.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#519

Post by UncleMeat »

mopsi wrote: post #250
joconde wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative explanation: there have always been as many transgender kids, but they hid it because they knew they'd get bullied by everyone, including their own parents.

But that's not the whole story. Kids are also very malleable, open to peer pressure and easily assume identities that earn them acceptance by their peers.

The number of left handed people rose dramatically after we stopped beating children who wrote with their left hand.

People had precisely this same concern about gay people over the past few decades. And the same concern about things like heavy metal music.

When your argument rhymes so well with these obviously broken prior arguments, it is worth re-evaluating.

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