I used to like Safari for Windows.
It does seem like a shame there's no Safari for Windows
Nor for Linux.
Very hard to debug if you're not on MacOS.
For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
551–560 of 623 posts
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our site broke in Safari because Safari handles dates (as in the built-in Date object) differently than all other browsers, so it's not just styling or visual things that can be different.
Differently in what way?
Safari handles date only time different to other browser (the time zone). Your date is going to be off by hours if you don't append a timezone on it to force it parsed correctly.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why expand the surface are of the hole? Besides, it's quite possible that the hole in WebPush does not allow for some/many scenarios that a background sync would.
Because if the hole exists at all, malicious actors will find a way to abuse it. But if non malicious developers have to jump through too many hoops to provide useful functionality to users they will just give up and users lose out.
> Because if the hole exists at all, malicious actors will find a way to abuse it.
Yes, they will. So the question remains: why expand the hole?
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if I'm trying to achieve something and I can't do it on the web, I'll end up installing a native app which has way more access to my system. This is not an argument to just go ahead and implement WebUSB/Bleutooth/Serial/whatever. > As a developer I would much rather be able to just deploy cool things Ah yes. It would so very nice if we could just trust all developers to not be malicious actors.
The fewer features the browser has, the more code ends up as native apps or on cloud backends instead of the user's device. How many IoT devices could have just used bluetooth for interactive with them, but instead they all phone home to some central cloud server because the user experience of just hitting a web page is better than installing some clunky native app. Should we "just go ahead" and expose everything? Of…
> But there's room for thoughtful implementation of these features that users want.
Yes, there is. And that's exactly the position of both Firefox and Safari: don't rush in and implement stuff just because you can.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hm, Safari has done it its own way right from the beginning. (Meaning, Chrome and Safari had never the same implementation.) Edit: As I recall it, Safari was an early adapter of the standard (even before its release), which comes with its own caveats. And it's actually because of not breaking things that there are these Safari idiosyncrasies. (The alternative would have been some kind of rolling prerelease standard,…
As a user of Web Audio I can tell you that it’s broken in the latest Safari. As in, we cannot play a simple sound. Our users are not happy about it.
I'm running latest Safari and I can definitely play sounds on websites. Is Safari broken, or just your code?
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#556Nope, Apple's Safari is the last stand (given it's market share, FF is miniscule) from the web standards becoming whatever Google likes... It's not Safari which is outdated, it's standards that move too fast and come ad-hoc to Google's tastes. And it's not even about the web anymore, it's all kinds of crap to make the browser a slower, duplicate of native functionality, app platform.
Apple is just as likely to test new features in the wild, or introduce new features without going through the standards process. prefers-color-scheme sure came out of nowhere. And I'm sure you remember their original proposal with WebGPU. Meanwhile Apple are strangling PWAs to hold onto their app store monopoly, and extremely slow to implement features that other vendors adopted long ago. jQueryUI had its life artifi…
> Apple are strangling PWAs
Strangling is a funny word to use. They never implemented PWA features in the first place. They're under no obligation to do so, either. You can argue whether PWAs are good or not, but I don't think such an argument can be made objectively.
I.E., there's a prevailing view in this thread that web browsers are evolving in one direction, and Safari is slower than everyone else at getting there. IMO this is wrong. A better way to look at it is that web standards are a big blob of shit, and each browser is implementing the subset of that blob that they think is useful. This is how it's always been.
Mozilla has been neutering PWA recently too. Maybe it's just not a good set of technologies?
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
The next advancement after the some of the first web-browsers was pop up blockers. So, at the very least; someone was annoyed at “notifications”.
I’ve been using Android for some years, and notifications are a non-issue. Yet it always comes up from safari apologists.
Novice users do not even know what it means to approve a notification. I look at their devices and often see a ton of web notifications that are objectively spam (eg, "tap here to meet hot singles"). The web notification spam is a huge issue.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
It means Brendan Eich is opposed to same sex marriage: Brendan doesn't believe that same sex couples should have equal rights as opposite sex couples. There's something about equality that deeply disturbs and confuses Brendan, so much that he donated a large amount of money to the cause of tearing apart families by destroying legally married loving couple's existing same sex marriages in California, while Brendan and…
Biden, Obama and Clinton were against same sex marriage until they "supposedly" switched. You can't judge a person based on what's reported on them. Have you read or talked to Brendan about why he thinks and why he thinks it? Being against same sex marriage does not necessarily mean he thinks same sex couple are lesser people or that he's greater than them, it means he has an opinion, people with means and opinions u…
> Fairness means equality of opportunity, not the equality of outcome. Arguing for the equality of outcome is tyrannical and pure evil.
You're right; fairness means equality of opportunity. Arguing for removal of equal opportunity is "tyrannical and pure evil".
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hm, Safari has done it its own way right from the beginning. (Meaning, Chrome and Safari had never the same implementation.) Edit: As I recall it, Safari was an early adapter of the standard (even before its release), which comes with its own caveats. And it's actually because of not breaking things that there are these Safari idiosyncrasies. (The alternative would have been some kind of rolling prerelease standard,…
As a user of Web Audio I can tell you that it’s broken in the latest Safari. As in, we cannot play a simple sound. Our users are not happy about it.
It's not broken. Maybe your code is broken, I dunno, as I don't have it in front of me. But Web Audio most certainly works "in the latest Safari".
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#560Earlier quoted context omitted.
It exists, but its market share is negligible. According to StatCounter, Firefox has a market share of 0.5% on mobile: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/world... Even on desktop, Firefox is sliding towards irrelevancy, with just 7% market share.
Honestly it's weird to me that more people don't use Firefox on Android. Only mobile browser that supports uBlock Origin.
Apart from that, it's also fast, rock solid, has UI on the bottom, which is much easier to use, syncs with desktop (if you want that) etc...In general, it's excellent and I don't understand why it isn't hugely more used - unless I concede to the argument that people just don't care about privacy and Google's monopoly...