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Brave Search beta

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Re: Brave Search beta

#551

Post by Kiro »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #504
jonathansampson wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe I've been quite respectful with you. If at any time I was caustic, abrasive, or offensive, I apologize. It is certainly not my intention.

From my read through the thread, you're being very nice, but also very dismissive. That's not actually respectful, even if it's not the harsh things you describe. And it's not kind. If you disagree with someone's experience that you feel passionately about defending, you might have better luck defending it by taking a moment to think about what they experienced differently from your own experience, how much you care…

People are too sensitive nowadays. Everything needs to be wrapped silk and the actual information gets shrouded by fluff.

Re: Brave Search beta

#552

Post by tobr »

tobr wrote: post #542
jonathansampson wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how you feel "Brave has a culture of user-hostile UX"? You're not talking about the first version of the User Tipping feature from 2018 (where Brave gave BAT to its users and asked them to give mark which creator(s) they'd like to support) are you?

Generally the same type of problems as a lot of UX has today, especially on mobile: various messages and modals and controls that seem to be motivated by Brave’s needs, not mine. Sponsored images, trying to get me to set it as standard browser, “Brave rewards” whatever that is being a permanent part of the UI and turning itself on without me asking it to. These might be small things compared to Google, but I’ve never…

Let me expand a little on why I think this is so corrosive to my trust in Brave, because this is interesting stuff. When I use the Brave browser, I have to second-guess everything in the UI to consider why a control or message is there, if it’s in my interest or if you’re trying to get me to do something that’s in your interest. My eyes have to scan the UI in much the same way I do with ads in search results or spam in my inbox; having to actively filter out the potential harms from the things that are useful.

It’s like I can feel my eyes getting more tense as I do this.

That means that every single time I use the browser, the impression that Brave should not be trusted is reinforced in a very physical way. It’s not just a “brand impression” but a muscle memory.

Re: Brave Search beta

#553

Post by bartvk »

tomstockmail wrote: post #313
AegirLeet wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a browser with built-in cryptocurrency nonsense. That should tell you everything you need to know.

That, and anytime there's a critical comment on hackernews their employee's come flying in to do damage control.

I happen to like that counterpoint. It doesn't feel like damage control, it feels like what they're doing, is worthy of discussion and they don't shy away from it.

Re: Brave Search beta

#554

Post by [deleted] »

Kiro wrote: post #551
eyelidlessness wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my read through the thread, you're being very nice, but also very dismissive. That's not actually respectful, even if it's not the harsh things you describe. And it's not kind. If you disagree with someone's experience that you feel passionately about defending, you might have better luck defending it by taking a moment to think about what they experienced differently from your own experience, how much you care…

People are too sensitive nowadays. Everything needs to be wrapped silk and the actual information gets shrouded by fluff.

[deleted]

Re: Brave Search beta

#555

Post by eyelidlessness »

Kiro wrote: post #551
eyelidlessness wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my read through the thread, you're being very nice, but also very dismissive. That's not actually respectful, even if it's not the harsh things you describe. And it's not kind. If you disagree with someone's experience that you feel passionately about defending, you might have better luck defending it by taking a moment to think about what they experienced differently from your own experience, how much you care…

People are too sensitive nowadays. Everything needs to be wrapped silk and the actual information gets shrouded by fluff.

It’s not clear who you’re saying is being too sensitive, or why you think so.

Re: Brave Search beta

#556

Post by dannyw »

tjpnz wrote: post #546
lowkeyokay wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, DDG worked fine for 95% of time, but the remaining 5% failure often led to some extreme frustration that I just couldn't stand. Is 95% really not acceptable?My experience is quite different though. When I don’t get the results I hoped I just use !g. Easy. But the result are rarely any better

I sometimes wonder if that 5% is something DDG and others can realistically solve. Perhaps the issue has less to do with engineering and more to do with Google being the dominant player over the previous 20-years (give or take). That's an awfully long time for one company to effectively own a product category and build expectations among users about how it should work. FWIW I do get good results from DDG (sometimes b…

While I think there's merits to what you are saying, also keep in mind that Google SERPs have dramatically changed over the past few years. It's very much a different search engine to Google of the 2010s.

The most visible examples are that Google is editorialising specific results, and specifically boosting what it considers "credible sources". It also means wilfully not giving you what you want to search for.

Try to search for "8kun" on Google, and you won't find a single link to 8kun.

Try to search for "8kun" on Bing, and the #1 result is 8kun.top.

Re: Brave Search beta

#557

Post by cfn »

lowkeyokay wrote: post #263
zzyzxd wrote: post #46

Previous related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26328758 If things go as planned, this may become a paid, ad-free, zero-tracking search engine. I can't express how exciting this is to me. Over the past few years, I have made several attempts to replace Google Search with DuckDuckGo. But they have all failed and I always ended up changing the default search engine back to Google. I mean, DDG worked f…

> I mean, DDG worked fine for 95% of time, but the remaining 5% failure often led to some extreme frustration that I just couldn't stand. Is 95% really not acceptable?My experience is quite different though. When I don’t get the results I hoped I just use !g. Easy. But the result are rarely any better

I am on the third or forth trial to change to DDG and this time it is working not because DDG is better but because Google's search is degrading so much.

Re: Brave Search beta

#559

Post by ntp85 »

kaba0 wrote: post #544
propogandist wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honey, a browser extension that harvests user data and injects its own affiliate links was acquired by Paypal for $4 Billion. Publishers are shilling amazon's prime day because they're all amazon affiliates wanting to earn their commission. Similarly, all those "price comparison" and coupon sites are injecting affiliate codes and just redirecting you to the merchant. I don't see how Brave did something egregious inje…

Patching a few things in chrome is radically easier than maintaining and improving a completely different browser engine. And just because Google pays some money to firefox for their own selfish reason to not be caught in monopoly busting doesn’t create any twisted incentives for Firefox. It is the privacy-oriented browser fighting for a worthy case. Also, it is improving all the time - it’s just that for some reason…

> Also, it is improving all the time - it’s just that for some reason the few missteps are way overpronounced.

I don't understand why Firefox gets this benefit of doubt and other browsers (e.g. Brave) do not.

Re: Brave Search beta

#560

Post by Kiro »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #555
Kiro wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are too sensitive nowadays. Everything needs to be wrapped silk and the actual information gets shrouded by fluff.

It’s not clear who you’re saying is being too sensitive, or why you think so.

People who think it's disrespectful when a company representative do not preface every response with "I deeply apologize that you feel this way" or some equivalent nonsense. You even claim responding to something inaccurate is user hostile.
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