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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#551

Post by swat535 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

> Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections.

You have got to be kidding me.. You are at work because you have a contract to fulfil. You are not there to find your soulmate , stop saying things like "we are a family" , the second you get fired your coworkers will ignore you. Out of 99% of my interactions at work, maybe at best 1% of them even keep in touch with me, never mind actually building a deep connection.

Further if you are praising being in stuck for hours in traffic for a sense of "normalcy" , you clearly have no idea how frustrating and time consuming it is. I've been driving to office for years and the exhausting dread of wasting 3+ hours of commute time in traffic gives my anxiety.

Finally, your home is your sanctuary, if you are escaping from home, you have deeper problems, going to the office is not the solution.

Stop normalizing inefficient office-busy-work over actually being productive, getting decent sleep, having more free time to spend with your family and friends which are huge advantages of remote work.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#552

Post by Haunted_Cabbage »

paulcole wrote: post #463
ptr wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about 10 average vs 1 great?

For the huge majority of jobs, 10 average people are better, in my opinion.

Sounds like an explanation of why labor costs are a employer's largest expense.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#553

Post by kamaal »

thekyle wrote: post #361
toomanybeersies wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why even bother with expensive devs? Because you get what you pay for. I am yet to hear of any cases where in the long run outsourcing development to a low-wage country actually saved money. Competent engineers generally follow the money and emigrate. Why earn $10k a year in India when you could earn $100k in the USA?

What if $10k in India gets you the same lifestyle as $100k in the U.S.?

Speaking as someone who has stayed in both countries. Even $1 million in India won't buy you the same lifestyle as $0 in the US.

Just the clean air, water, nutritious food and cleanliness are good enough reasons to get a US passport. The other things come extra.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#554

Post by kamaal »

sputknick wrote: post #14

I think WFH continues until a company misses financial numbers for a quarter, or a competitor brings their people back into the office, or performance slips. This won't last beyond that.

Absolutely. I remember doing a project sometime back for a whole year entirely out of a war room. I'd imagine it would take 2.5+ years without that sort of close collaboration.

WFH ends the day your competitions beats you a few years/month in 'Time to market'.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#555

Post by toomanybeersies »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #470
toomanybeersies wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why even bother with expensive devs? Because you get what you pay for. I am yet to hear of any cases where in the long run outsourcing development to a low-wage country actually saved money. Competent engineers generally follow the money and emigrate. Why earn $10k a year in India when you could earn $100k in the USA?

This is not going to be true forever. The idea that devs in india can never be good as devs in the USA is so absurdly arrogant I don't know what to say. I'm sure mechanics thought the same, engineers thought "no way the japs can make better cars" yea we saw how that went.

The problem isn't that Indian developers aren't as good as Western developers, it's that competent engineers tend to emigrate to wealthier countries.

Approx 15,000 Indian-born IT professionals migrate to Australia each year [1], and there are around 300,000 Indian H1B visa holders (of any profession) in the USA [2]. I don't see this changing any time soon.

[1] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/stati...

[2] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigratio...

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#556

Post by andrei_says_ »

bradlys wrote: post #537
andrei_says_ wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think saying that living away from the office is a choice is an incredibly privileged worldview. I live only 40 min away from the office but will rent forever and never own property. Yes that’s a “choice” — a forced one given my preference to avoid an insanely long commute in one of the largest cities in the U.S. If I could I’d work remotely and buy a house, possibly in a different city and maybe even country. Perm…

When most of my coworkers either work for FAANG or have in the past and many have a net wealth into the millions, it’s a choice to live away from the office. Even then, you have a choice. You can live with roommates or downsize your apartment to live closer to work. That’s just how it works. It’s still a choice. It’s not like there’s 0 available options for software engineers in most any major city in the US when it…

> Permanent WFH means you’ll never see your coworkers in person.

Why not? Making millions you could literally move to each of your coworkers’ city for a week, every week, and become besties. Or, fly all of them and their families to a retreat in Bali every quarter.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#557

Post by canofbars »

ameister14 wrote: post #387
canofbars wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Time theft is an interesting concept to me because it implies you're being paid for the time rather than for the utility of your labor. Why do you think time theft is important in your job? It kind of goes both ways though, if you had a less productive day would you be expected to stay late to make up for it? Most of the time you would just leave at the normal time and it wouldn't matter too much as long as you look…

>if you had a less productive day would you be expected to stay late to make up for it? Not necessarily, no. If your KPI's and bonus are properly lined up, that could be something for your manager to keep an eye on but you can't expect every day to be peak productivity.

So on the same logic, if you had a more productive day you shouldn't expect to leave early. I'd say its fair to say your results are more important than time but it goes both ways.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#558

Post by ameister14 »

canofbars wrote: post #557
ameister14 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you had a less productive day would you be expected to stay late to make up for it? Not necessarily, no. If your KPI's and bonus are properly lined up, that could be something for your manager to keep an eye on but you can't expect every day to be peak productivity.

So on the same logic, if you had a more productive day you shouldn't expect to leave early. I'd say its fair to say your results are more important than time but it goes both ways.

There are a few problems with your logic. First, it only works if you're measured day by day and paid day by day. I don't get paid daily, I think it's most common to be paid bi-weekly.

Second, you still wouldn't be expected to stay late or leave early - you'd simply be paid less.

There's a simple way to set that up. If you performed above the minimum set for you, you wouldn't be fired or warned. If you consistently performed at peak productivity, you'll get a bonus based on how much you produce.

We already do this.

>I'd say its fair to say your results are more important than time but it goes both ways.

Why? What does the company gain by having you in your seat for more hours?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#560

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #555
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not going to be true forever. The idea that devs in india can never be good as devs in the USA is so absurdly arrogant I don't know what to say. I'm sure mechanics thought the same, engineers thought "no way the japs can make better cars" yea we saw how that went.

The problem isn't that Indian developers aren't as good as Western developers, it's that competent engineers tend to emigrate to wealthier countries. Approx 15,000 Indian-born IT professionals migrate to Australia each year [1], and there are around 300,000 Indian H1B visa holders (of any profession) in the USA [2]. I don't see this changing any time soon. [1] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/st…

You're looking at it wrong.

The supply is rapidly increasing. it doesn't matter that they move. Eventually there will be competition for jobs and prices will go down - because virtual work means the entire world is a job market.

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