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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#551

Post by pjmlp »

bzzzt wrote: post #544
pjmlp wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have they done, lets see: - Brought MaximeVM of research and creating GraalVM - In the process of adding value types to Java - In the process of adding support for explicit SIMD in Java - In the process of adding co-routines to Java - Added type inference support - Added pattern matching - Added record types - Integrated J/Rockit support for JIT caches - Made Flight Recorder available in OpenJDK - In the process…

When your company software stack is turned inside-out by Oracle reps to look for unlicensed JVM's on penalty of really big fines (sorry, opportunities to buy more Oracle software) all those nice-to-have features don't seem to matter that much.

Java is like C and C++, plenty of implementations to choose from, including the free beer OpenJDK.

Anything else is just FUD.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#552

Post by pjmlp »

bayindirh wrote: post #548
pjmlp wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have they done, lets see: - Brought MaximeVM of research and creating GraalVM - In the process of adding value types to Java - In the process of adding support for explicit SIMD in Java - In the process of adding co-routines to Java - Added type inference support - Added pattern matching - Added record types - Integrated J/Rockit support for JIT caches - Made Flight Recorder available in OpenJDK - In the process…

They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these fo…

Good on them, they stepped in for Sun when no one else bothered to [0], including Google after screwing them up.

I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6.

[0] - Only IBM considered it, which from these threads people here wouldn't be happy anyway.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#553

Post by reacharavindh »

This is sad. Our research group runs based on RHEL + CentOS. RHEL for all the important stuff, and CentOS for all the compute nodes. Now, if CentOS 8 dies, there is no way we are running say Debain on compute nodes and RHEL on other servers. RedHat sadly has to go away. It's their own way of losing our business, and losing goodwill. Now, the people at university will treat RedHat the same as Oracle and IBM for being greedy and evil.

Too bad Scientific Linux was dropped in favour of CentOS. Perhaps scientific community will revive Scientific Linux or something like that. Cant wait for what comes out of this.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#554

Post by m463 »

happyjack wrote: post #51

Wow. I kind of new this day was coming. I work in engineering / science (not comp. sci or developing) and all our software vendors are Windows or RHEL support only. Although if you know your way around linux any flavor will do, but RHEL is the "standard" for support. It's kind of like "insurance." We expect this to compile / work for RHEL and NOTHING else, because RHEL is stable, predictable, and boring. I've run mos…

Ubuntu phones home a lot.

Don't know if that applies to rhel

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#555

Post by jmnicolas »

pnutjam wrote: post #279
jmnicolas wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why RedHat is giving away the very same thing they're trying to sell Goodwill. I use CentOS and until now if I had a project were Linux support had been important I would have gone with Redhat. They can rot in hell now.

Have you heard of OpenSuse.

Frankly I'm not going to take the risk of being burned again by some corporate money grab. I will go with Debian.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#556

Post by bayindirh »

pjmlp wrote: post #552
bayindirh wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these fo…

Good on them, they stepped in for Sun when no one else bothered to [0], including Google after screwing them up. I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6. [0] - Only IBM considered it, which from these threads people here wouldn't be happy anyway.

Development of programming languages by corporations is not something I object but, all of the stuff told about Oracle here is correct.

They're not a nice entity unless you pay money to them and they're greedy. They always want more. Also, their hardware can fail in strange ways and they'd shrug it off.

I've met with some nice people who migrated from Sun but they all say that the terms they work are draconian.

I like Java too but, developing a nice language doesn't make Oracle good. Don't get distracted [0].

> I guess the "community" would love to keep using Java frozen in version 6.

Python doesn't stop. C++ doesn't drop. Even brainfuck doesn't stop. It'd have prevailed. OpenJDK is one fruit of the project. After removing patent encumbered image processing stuff, OpenJDK just took off. Yes, it's still part of Oracle in a sense but, OracleJDK is compiled from OpenJDK, not vice versa. Again, don't get distracted [0].

[0]: https://calebhearth.com/talks/dont-get-distracted

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#557

Post by thu2111 »

bayindirh wrote: post #548
pjmlp wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have they done, lets see: - Brought MaximeVM of research and creating GraalVM - In the process of adding value types to Java - In the process of adding support for explicit SIMD in Java - In the process of adding co-routines to Java - Added type inference support - Added pattern matching - Added record types - Integrated J/Rockit support for JIT caches - Made Flight Recorder available in OpenJDK - In the process…

They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these fo…

I don't think that's really true. My understanding from talking to people there is that Java funding was increased for so many years despite losing money because Larry Ellison just thought it was cool tech and they use it a lot. Likewise, GraalVM is so well funded largely because it's cool and Oracle doesn't have many cool R&D projects. It's not clear it's all that commercially driven when you observe that so much of it is open source.

That said, their supported versions of Java and Graal are expensive. Some things never change.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#558

Post by soraminazuki »

vbezhenar wrote: post #288
Jimmc414 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. The hypothetical you posed is the actual situation, I am now learning, I have apparently forced on my team. We've ramped up labor 3x revenue preparing product launch in 90 - 180 days. We created an image containing centos 8 , Java , postgres and tomcat a year ago an…

Consider downgrading to CentOS 7. It should work for 4 more years.

Can we take RedHat's word for it, though? CentOS 8 was supposed to be supported until 2029 before this bombshell announcement.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201101131417/https://wiki.cent...

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#559

Post by jsiepkes »

vbezhenar wrote: post #298
ilovetux wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who use CentOS want a boring Linux distro like RHEL. They just don't want to pay for RHEL subscriptions. I use CentOS a lot for prototyping projects destined to be put on RHEL servers. I like it as a try-before-you-buy version of RHEL, and this change makes that use case a lot less useful.

I think that your use-case matches perfectly with RHEL free developer license.

The free RHEL development license doesn't allow for even a whim of something that could be considered production usage.

So you can't make a proof of concept with the RHEL developer license in which you let "the business", customers, etc. toy around for a while.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#560

Post by bayindirh »

thu2111 wrote: post #557
bayindirh wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've done all of them because they think it'll allow them to earn more money with less effort on the long run, not because of the sheer love of computer science and research. Oracle creates cool tech in the legacy of Sun because it impresses the right people who can influence the decision makers. To recap: "Hey, Oracle's these new toys are capable and fun to use. We can do much more with them. Can you buy these fo…

I don't think that's really true. My understanding from talking to people there is that Java funding was increased for so many years despite losing money because Larry Ellison just thought it was cool tech and they use it a lot. Likewise, GraalVM is so well funded largely because it's cool and Oracle doesn't have many cool R&D projects. It's not clear it's all that commercially driven when you observe that so much of…

> I don't think that's really true. My understanding from talking to people there is that Java funding was increased for so many years despite losing money because Larry Ellison just thought it was cool tech and they use it a lot. Likewise, GraalVM is so well funded largely because it's cool and Oracle doesn't have many cool R&D projects. It's not clear it's all that commercially driven when you observe that so much of it is open source.

I just hope that it's true. We really need that.

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