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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#551

Post by klmadfejno »

r00fus wrote: post #285
klmadfejno wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't know. I think they've got a lot of positive momentum. I would bet generously on their future. * I despise fortnite. I don't know if it has longevity. But it's pretty damn ambitious and is closer to the metaverse than anyone has gotten in a frustrating sort of way * Unreal Engine is getting better by the day, is very dev friendly, and is likely going to grow in popularity as some of it's neat-o UE5 feature…

What do you mean that FN is closer to the "metaverse"?

Metaverse as described in Neal Stephenson's "Snowcrash" which was one of the first novels to describe a multiplayer VR world. Fun book.

By closer I mean it's developing this weird culture as a place to just hang out in besides just playing rounds of the games. People watch movies and concerts and what not in the game. It has a higher level evolving plot line and culture. Like second life but mainstream; social media in video game form.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#552

Post by grishka »

misnome wrote: post #473
grishka wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let them install that malware and have their data stolen despite all warnings because they deserve it? We can't have safety nets everywhere, and we, in fact, don't. We allow everyone to drive, use knives and handle all kinds of potentially dangerous stuff every day, but for some reason can't trust them with their own phones. Some mistakes are costly, but people learn from them. Such is life.

> We allow everyone to drive Don't people normally get qualified to drive, controlled by the Government? Is that what you are advocating?

They do, but a car is still a very dangerous thing. Judging by /r/IdiotsInCars on Reddit, there are people who don't quite realize that despite having a driver license.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#553

Post by strbean »

tadzik_ wrote: post #422
fishywang wrote: post #352

My prediction is that this will backfire so badly for Apple. Apple clearly underestimated how popular Unreal Engine is to game developers. Apple probably expect developers to just switch to other engines when they took UE away from them, but in reality most of the developers currently using UE will just stop publishing on Apple's platforms because that's no longer a profitable platform (consider the investment for de…

Given that game porters currently chose Metal over alternatives specifically to support the lucrative Apple market better, I'm pretty sure they'd jump ship instantly to Unity or something else that isn't an engina non grata. People have been bending over to Apple in their choice of technologies for at least as long as OSX is a thing. A gaming engine (not even the most popular one on mobile) isn't gonna change that at…

Jumping ship instantly from one engine to another isn't possible. You're talking about developers doing a full rewrite of their games. Sure, plenty of mobile games are crap that can be cranked out in a coke-fueled weekend (see Zynga). But there are also mobile games that required significant development effort to build.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#554

Post by floatingatoll »

noodle wrote: post #518
ryandrake wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An application that suddenly changes behavior due to no action taken by the user, triggered remotely by the developer, is getting very close to the "malware" line in my book.

This is a pretty broad brush. It puts a lot of installable desktop or mobile apps into that bucket due to things like code push. And of course every web app falls in this territory.

What is the definition of sufficient when it comes to protecting non-technical users from harmful code?

In old sci-fi books, there's a couple that describe a future where connecting an old device to the Internet without having first installed updates will result in the device being exploited and/or ruined within a few seconds.

I notice that the Xcode worm was reposted again this morning, which seems like the perfect mechanism for covertly preparing for a worldwide hack of all iOS devices through a backdoor that has been compiled into all software. (You could get a similar effect by introducing malware into CocoaPods, and with similar reach.) All of these protections Apple has with Gatekeeper and Notarization would, to many extents, protect end users against that attack.

As you said, it's definitely a broad brush. The risk is absolutely real, though I imagine we all disagree on how important it is. It's the same problem as the risk of Python/Ruby/Node dependency compromises. Any solution that would work for protecting us against an NPM compromise would also work for protecting us against a macOS software compromise. Apple's solutions have a higher total value of protection, in exchange for a higher total value of bothersome.

Is the NPM model (you can ship any code worldwide, have fun!) safe enough for non-technical users, such that Apple could just drop Gatekeeper and let us all go back to the wild west macOS days? If not, what model is acceptable, given that Apple's model isn't?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#555

Post by cma »

drawkbox wrote: post #510

> "Millions of developers rely on the Unreal Engine to develop software, and hundreds of millions of consumers use that software," argues Epic. > "Developers that intend to sell their apps for use on iOS or macOS devices will have to forgo the Unreal Engine in favor of other engines," reads the motion. That is what I was expecting after Epic went after Apple. They had to know it would hurt them and all the devs using…

Epic also allows free to play games to set up their own payment systems and pay 0%.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#558

Post by zucker42 »

jhloa2 wrote: post #17
almost_usual wrote: post #10

So if the government doesn’t side with Epic or bail them out at this point are they done for? Seems like Epic put everything on the line.

Epic has more revenue streams than just Apple's ecosystems.

It could be really bad for Epic in the long term if Apple decides to completely and permantly prevent Unreal Engine from running on Mac and iOS. Game developers may be less likely to use Unreal Engine if they know it doesn't have support for Apple OSes.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#559

Post by kelnos »

fermienrico wrote: post #480
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself. If not for IME, I could have a computer under my control, running software guaranteed to be free from the Trusting Trust attack, right now .

I respectfully disagree in my case. I don't consider myself a security expert at anything, especially at computers. This is probably 99.999% of the Apple customers. People like yourself can probably manage their own security, have a secure NAS, multiple firewalls, etc. Do you see it from the perspective of average Joe (or me)?

That's fine, but you're telling everyone else that, because you personally are not willing to take responsibility for the security of your devices, it's ok for a corporation to dictate that no one is.

This doesn't need to be an either/or situation. You can outsource your security and privacy decisions to Apple while simultaneously allowing others to take full control of their devices.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#560

Post by heavyset_go »

theshrike79 wrote: post #296
bob1029 wrote: post #291

Can someone give me compelling reasons for disallowing side-loading of applications on iOS? Hypothetically, if side-loading were to be allowed it could be buried under a configuration+confirmation flag for security reasons just like with Android or Windows 10. Thinking more abstractly about this, I already do "sideload" iOS applications when I sign them with enterprise/developer certs and perform OTA installs from sy…

A single human is smart, people are stupid. They’ll install ANYTHING, no matter how hard it is and how shady the site is. They can’t help themselves. Then their phone is rooted by a bad actor and spreading malware. Who do they blame? Themselves? The shady site? The creator of the trojan? Nope. Apple. They’ll shout from the rooftops how Apple ruined their life and business and remand restitution. The easiest and most…

A walled garden doesn't stop the fact that iOS exploits are cheaper than Android exploits because there are an abundance of iOS exploits, and many of them use Safari to gain root by visiting a website.
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