Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet • Hacker News Board

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#551

Post by shlant » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

vasco wrote: post #486

shlant wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or maybe it's possible to address multiple sources of a problem simultaneously? I see this "not as bad as" fallacy again and again in various different discussions and it is mainly used to downplay issues by comparing them to something worse. There is absolutely no reason we cannot discuss and address one issue without it taking away from other (possibly more impactful) issues. Some issues have less impact but are ea…

If one is 3% and the other 80%, any effort put on the 3% is only useful to distract from the 80%. It's wasted time. So ideally you don't do both, you focus on the things that matter.

> any effort put on the 3% is only useful to distract from the 80%

How is it a distraction to address the percentage (however small) that we can have as individuals while the larger problems are solved through legislation/technological advancements? They are not mutually exclusive. It's not like people/organizations/governments can only think about/propose/implement one change at a time. It's like making the argument that nobody can do any work on smaller bug fixes while the main code branch is being compiled. Both contribute to the success of the whole, but neither are mutually exclusive given enough manpower (which the world undoubtably has). You can certainly work on hobby projects at home without it taking away from your work in the office.

when we are at a tipping point for climate change and every bit of reduction in greenhouse gases matters, plus the fact that most of the contributors aren't easily affected at an individual level, there is no reason to not address both simultaneously. How most individual humans currently live is unsustainable, period. If we actually want to ensure the continued survival as a species on this planet, we are going to have to change our individual habits at some point. There is no amount of carbon capture/tax that can undo or prevent the destruction of the planets natural resources. You have to address the underlying unsustainability, not just treat the symptom.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#552

Post by dnhz » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

elktea wrote: post #537

dnhz wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthiest way to go about it is to go low-fat, high carb. The body uses glucose for energy most easily. Whole-foods plant based diets, as shown in documentaries like Forks Over Knives, have been shown to let people lose weight and reverse diseases like diabetes. A cooked carb like a potato or rice is like 1 calorie/gram, including the water. Oil is 9 calories/gram. Without oil, sheer food volume and fiber will make…

The body will preferentially use alcohol before glucose. I recommend a 100% alcohol based diet.

The liver processes alcohol, which gets in the way of its normal function.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#553

Post by OrwellianChild » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:21 AM UTC

mklarmann wrote: post #449

andy_ppp wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you guys think saturated fat is bad for you? Certainly when fried it's much much healthier as it doesn't decompose into cancerous aldehydes. The science on this is very tainted so I would be very careful about assumptions here. Are there other things apart from saturated fat you are worried about? [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3t902pqt3C7nGN99hV...

Good evidence is given by the global burden of disease project. Funded by Bill&Melinda Gates, over 2000 scientists aggregated 15‘000 publications into the largest epidemiological study. Addressing 14 health risks concerning your diet into actual life years lost (DALY) respective per region, age, gender. Unsaturated fats is not the biggest contributor, but nevertheless. http://www.healthdata.org/gbd

Closest thing I could find on that site that matches this description is the second chart on this page. [1] It shows diets "low in poly-UN-saturated fatty acids" as 11th-highest risk factor, contributing to less than 1% of the disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) lost.

I'm not sure that a diet low in unsaturated fats can be conflated with one with high saturated fats. They tend to come from different sources (vegetables, nuts, and fish vs. meat, butter, and eggs, respectively).

Also, please do not make it this difficult to source your claims - the link you provide is to a homepage for an entire decades-long project full of results and reporting. This is incredibly annoying and unconstructive to the discussion.

[1] http://www.healthdata.org/announcement/improved-diets-and-in...

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#554

Post by lol768 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

dmux wrote: post #269

lol768 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>adult don't need to drink any milk and many don't digest it well, by the way Never understood the obsession with drinking milk on its own (though I never liked the taste of it myself either). There's plenty of calcium to be found in other sources: kale, leafy greens, almonds, fortrified grains, beans/pulses etc.

>Never understood the obsession with drinking milk on its own It's something that's been consumed for millennia. There are societies based on pastoralism where milk is a huge part of the diet. I'd hardly classify it as being an obsession.

>It's something that's been consumed for millennia. There are societies based on pastoralism where milk is a huge part of the diet. I'd hardly classify it as being an obsession.

Obsession is probably the wrong word, but I'd still be curious as to the history behind it (and how long it continued into adulthood). Especially given its association with and place in a juvenile diet.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#555

Post by lol768 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:04 AM UTC

academic_nimrod wrote: post #215

lol768 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>adult don't need to drink any milk and many don't digest it well, by the way Never understood the obsession with drinking milk on its own (though I never liked the taste of it myself either). There's plenty of calcium to be found in other sources: kale, leafy greens, almonds, fortrified grains, beans/pulses etc.

People aren't obsessed with it, it's just good. You ever had a cold glass of whole milk with a slice of chocolate cake? It's good for your soul.

I have, I wasn't much of a fan :P

(Cow) milk just seems to have an unpleasant aftertaste to me. I get on well with oat milk, though.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#556

Post by Retric » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:10 AM UTC

shlant wrote: post #550

Retric wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally it's grouped under malnutrition though the severe from is Kwashiorkor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein%E2%80%93energy_malnutr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwashiorkor Moderate levels generally shows up as low albumin levels on a blood test aka Hypoalbuminemia a type of Hypoproteinemia, and is associated with a huge range of symptoms. Westerners generally only get this due to Malabsorption.

> Westerners generally only get this due to Malabsorption Exactly. It's not really a "protein deficiency" as much as it is a "nutritional deficiency". You can easily get enough protein even if you just eat vegetables (for example) as long as you get enough calories.

Can does not mean will. People do dumb things like get 10+% of their calories from sodas.

The tendency to over eat, eat lots of meat, and have a very sedentary lifestyle are the main reasons it’s uncommon in the west. However, it does still occasionally happen to people due to very poor diets combined with active lifestyles. Healing and inflammation related heath issues can also increase people’s needs for protein.

PS: People also very rarely get scurvy via avoiding or over cooking all their sources of vitamin C for months. Occasionally taking a multi vitamin covers most nutritional issues except for macro nutrients.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#557

Post by _0w8t » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 11:00 AM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #470

ivanhoe wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth is that there's very little consensus on this, it's all politics at the moment. You have pro-vegans and pro-meat/keto tribes, and they all have their claims and proofs. My own purely anecdotal experience is that actually both approaches work just fine, if done in a sensible way.

The only politics is when you look at dozens of studies on NIH and say "it's all politics" and counter with your anecdotal experience. This is like denial of climate science. Stop doing it. I'm not part of any tribe but the science tribe. Eating meat is unambiguously worse for the environment and worse for your health than non-meat diets. The scientific theory and studies on the subject are clear. And I eat meat. Cho…

There are no studies that show that a diet where one consumes animal products occasionally like 2-3 times per months is worse for health then pure plant diet. This is even when one does eat meat, one eats it a lot. Apparently body is able to recover from any negative effects of animal products within 10-14 days. And one avoids a potential for deficiencies like B12, iron, K2 that one may run on a pure plant diet unless one is careful. And even for environment it can be better if the animal products on those days come from slaughtered caws that are grass-feed on land where growing grains etc. is impractical.

So the problem is really not the meat, but it’s amount.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#558

Post by jillesvangurp » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 11:32 AM UTC

captainredbeard wrote: post #365

jillesvangurp wrote: post #123

Regulate the industries and trade, not people's behavior. It's much easier and you actually get results and people adapt to pricing by themselves. The reality is that we have a few billion people that are doing pretty well economically and they are going to be feeding themselves with whatever they can afford. Unless you can convince more than half of them to become vegans, that means demand for meat is going to go up…

As I understand it, almost no cattle live indoors, especially not for their entire life. The only exception I can think of is Kobe beef. Even industrial beef cattle follow these stages (most companies target a single stage though your smaller boutique producers tend to tackle all three or at least the last two): 1. Cow/calf operations. These are all pastured (grass fed). At weaning they are sold at auction. 2. Backgr…

It depends. A lot of cows are kept indoors as well: https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2015/12/more-dutch-cows-are-ke...

The netherlands also has more pigs than people and these certainly don't go outside except to travel to slaught houses.

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#559

Post by F-0X » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

Stanish wrote: post #431

Pxtl wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as a vegetarian I can do some awesome things with lentils, but I remember the days when I could rub some spice on a pork chop and throw it on the grill and then have something boxed and starchy on the side and have a pretty decent meal. Meanwhile, a good lentil stew is a much more involved project. Much less home-made veggie burger patties which have dozens of ingredients and elaborate preparation processes. Go…

I’ve been vegan for two years now, and I can unequivocally say that cooking and eating are much easier than when I was constantly having to handle meat, clean up more & cook longer because of worries about food borne illness, etc. If you do it long enough it gets way easier as your cooking skills and methods adapt. Some tips I follow: -I highly recommend a CSA for great vegetables, delivered if possible -Start a smal…

> In general, cut back on foods and condiments rich in salt, sugar, fats

Another way to say this is "eat bland food". Literally.

Salt, fats, sugars, and acids, are what make food taste good. These distort your taste palette? These _are_ your taste palette...

Re: Eat less meat: UN climate change report calls for change to human diet

#560

Post by hispanic » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

henryaj wrote: post #494

dsirola wrote: post #479

The report states with high confidence that balanced diets featuring plant-based, and sustainably-produced animal-sourced, food “present major opportunities for adaptation and mitigation while generating significant co-benefits in terms of human health”. I think this says it all. The consumption is not as much of a problem as production. They don't mention how much forest is also cut to build farms and it's not like…

> it's not like plant growing industry is any better in terms of emissions Animal agriculture is enormously more resource-intensive than plant agriculture: https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1159831081798864898... How are we still having this debate?

I didn't read much of the report from which this is sourced from, but it appears that they base their numbers on current farming practices. In the U.S., those practices (for beef, pork, etc.) are, for the most part, horrible and irresponsible. Responsible practices work in concert with and support of the environment, not against it. Cows graze on and replenish lush grasslands. Pigs forage through and replenish forested areas. The animals are allowed to work within the cycle of nature and act as integral parts of healthy land management instead of being removed from it and treated as industrial outputs.

Cows aren't the problem. Pigs aren't the problem. Chickens aren't the problem. Mankind's industrialization of cows, pigs, and chickens is the problem.

So, for me, that's why we're still having this debate.