Thank you to everybody who cautioned against judgment before hearing the whole story. Here is my response: https://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-stamos/bug-bounty-ethics...
I think the root cause of the problem is the unclear policy by FB. Privilege escalation can be hard to catch, and can be a separate bug in and of itself, even if it requires a separate exploit to get the initial privileges. The published policy didn't say anything about not doing what he did. I'm not going to argue that what he did should or shouldn't be ok, but FB has no control over what other people do. Yeah, mayb…
Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
551–560 of 562 posts
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
If he had told Facebook that at the same time as he reported the credentials he harvested from the database --- which his timeline suggests he could have --- I'd agree with you. But he didn't. He put the credentials in his back pocket so he could pull them out when they suggested he hadn't found his "million dollar bug". And so for a month after they fixed the bug, some fucking rando is walking around with credential…
I think the point is that, after the first bug report those credentials SHOULD NOT WORK because their job should have included revoking ANYTHING that system have access to. How did they know Wes was the first person to find that bug and the linked credentials? So, the fact that those credentials still worked a month later is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL! Alex, the consummate professional, didn't do his job and instead had a k…
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#553Thank you to everybody who cautioned against judgment before hearing the whole story. Here is my response: https://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-stamos/bug-bounty-ethics...
There is no bug more critical than one that results in complete access to Instagram infrastructure. Sure, the bug is stupid, but you are fooling yourself.
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the point is that, after the first bug report those credentials SHOULD NOT WORK because their job should have included revoking ANYTHING that system have access to. How did they know Wes was the first person to find that bug and the linked credentials? So, the fact that those credentials still worked a month later is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL! Alex, the consummate professional, didn't do his job and instead had a k…
It has been incredibly interesting reading through those threads. People are arguing two completely different arguments. tptacek is saying that the dude keeping AWS keys without disclosing this was bad and guy is lucky to not get a early morning wake-up call from men with guns. slewis, comex et al are saying that Facebook not locking down and later disabling AWS keys was bad and Facebook was lucky they didn't get sol…
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
This whole thing is silly. Facebook (or any other tech company) have a lot of flexibility and hardly any accountability in defining what a "million dollar bug" is. You really can't believe they are going to just hand you over 1m because you think it is a 1m bug. It very well may be but in the end facebook will be the one deciding the value of said bug and you will have nothing to do with their decision so assume they…
No, the free market decides the value of the bug. You can either pay that value to a white hat to find it or wait til a black hat sells it. Facebook has now demonstrated that they will not only not pay you, but they will attacking you publicly, slander you, and threaten you. Now what does that mean for the next hacker coming along? Someone who is clean and wants to stay clean will avoid Facebook. Someone who isn't wi…
At best.
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#556Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facebook's disclosure policy reads: >If you give us reasonable time to respond to your report before making any information public, and make a good faith effort to avoid privacy violations, destruction of data, and interruption or degradation of our service during your research, we will not bring any lawsuit against you or ask law enforcement to investigate you. IANAL: but it could be argued (in court) that he had Fa…
The part you emphasized is dependent on the first part of that sentence, however. In this hypothetical lawsuit Facebook's lawyers would easily be able argue that they would not have done anything for the initial exploit or even demonstrating that he had recovered valid AWS keys but that attempting to hoover up data from S3, etc. violated the “good faith effort to avoid privacy violations” part.
That's a mischaracterization given his description. He examined the filenames/metadata specifically to avoid buckets that might contain user data.
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
The part you emphasized is dependent on the first part of that sentence, however. In this hypothetical lawsuit Facebook's lawyers would easily be able argue that they would not have done anything for the initial exploit or even demonstrating that he had recovered valid AWS keys but that attempting to hoover up data from S3, etc. violated the “good faith effort to avoid privacy violations” part.
>but that attempting to hoover up data from S3 That's a mischaracterization given his description. He examined the filenames/metadata specifically to avoid buckets that might contain user data.
2. This assumes that he was perfectly accurate in his assessment of an unfamiliar project's naming conventions, data structure, etc.
3. This assumes that he was perfectly reliable in making the actual copies and didn't accidentally include potential personal data (e.g. who knows what might be in a log file?)
The problem is that we're talking about someone who already decided to exceed the bounds of what was clearly protected under the bounty program. He'd already reported the initial vulnerability and been paid for it but waited until later to mention that he'd copied a bunch of other data, had access to critical infrastructure, and wanted more money.
It seems fairly likely that this wasn't malicious but rather just poor judgement, but that makes it very hard to assume that outside of that one huge lapse in judgement he did everything correctly. It's really easy to see why Facebook couldn't trust his word at that point since it's already far outside normal ethical behaviour.
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
>but that attempting to hoover up data from S3 That's a mischaracterization given his description. He examined the filenames/metadata specifically to avoid buckets that might contain user data.
1. This assumes his description of his actions is completely accurate 2. This assumes that he was perfectly accurate in his assessment of an unfamiliar project's naming conventions, data structure, etc. 3. This assumes that he was perfectly reliable in making the actual copies and didn't accidentally include potential personal data (e.g. who knows what might be in a log file?) The problem is that we're talking about…
To the second and third: They only require that a researcher "...make a good faith effort to avoid privacy violations..." and I'd say he met that. You can argue that the entire endeavor wasn't in good faith but he certainly made a significant and conscious effort to avoid private data.
I think his biggest lapse in judgement was that he brought security operations issues to light in a bug bounty program run by the people that would be most embarrassed by them. Application security bugs are created by the engineering team and the CSO's application security team fixes them (or advises or whatever). Security operations issues are entirely the responsibility of the CSO's department.
Facebook (as an organization) should be thanking him. While he didn't expose application security bugs he exposed significant operational issues and blind spots. Keys with far too much access, lack of log inspection, lack of security around what IP addresses a key can be used from, etc. Operational issues and lapses in operational security are what got Twitter in hot water with the FTC in 2010. It's not as easy to play cowboy with operations as it used to be.
The CSO hasn't been around for long but by all accounts he poured a lot of effort into hiring an application security team. Perhaps that's his specialty but even one experienced technical manager hired for security operations could have caught these basic issues. They probably wouldn't have addressed the lack of least privilege in that time frame but they could have easily spun up logging to catch some rando on an unknown IP address using their keys.
But like I said, he hasn't been there for long so I don't blame him for the failure. What I do blame him for is calling up the employer to threaten them as leverage to shut up the researcher. I blame him for posting a thinly veiled justification for doing so. He could have addressed this openly, talked to the guy directly and went to the other C-level execs with it as a justification for getting everyone on board with fixing it but he tried to keep it contained to his department.
I understand how he must feel being the new guy who's responsible for the outcome but not for creating it. I know he'll get questions that he might not be able to answer since they probably aren't logging bucket access. Questions like, "Who else got a copy of these keys and what did they access?" Saying "I don't know and we may never know" in response to that, even if you weren't in charge more than three months ago, is rough.
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#559Thank you to everybody who cautioned against judgment before hearing the whole story. Here is my response: https://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-stamos/bug-bounty-ethics...
Re: Instagram's Million Dollar Bug
#560Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're missing my point and talking about something entirely different from what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about whether Facebook will prosecute and what the consequences of that will be (whether they'll win or lose whatever). I'm just pointing out that taking AWS keys is a big deal , because it's legally a big deal.
Facebook's disclosure policy reads: >If you give us reasonable time to respond to your report before making any information public, and make a good faith effort to avoid privacy violations, destruction of data, and interruption or degradation of our service during your research, we will not bring any lawsuit against you or ask law enforcement to investigate you. IANAL: but it could be argued (in court) that he had Fa…