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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#541

Post by rmnclmnt »

appplication wrote: post #286
grvdrm wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply you. Spot on perfect. I see this too often and not just in tech.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

> People do weird things when given sudden access to money or power.

10 years ago my last boss told me one last advice before going onto entrepreneur ventures: « be careful, people do become crazy and stupid with money » (and I guess he knew what he was talking about…)

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#542

Post by hiworld6543 »

ryandrake wrote: post #96
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

[flagged]

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#543

Post by ozgung »

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

I think a mandatory first thing for any engineer is to learn, understand and commit for life to the Ethics of their profession. It's a shame all these very picky recruitment processes and 'culture' of these giant companies didn't care about ethics and morality.

Relevant articles in IEEE Code of Ethics:

3. to avoid real or perceived conflicts of interest whenever possible, and to disclose them to affected parties when they do exist;

4. to avoid unlawful conduct in professional activities, and to reject bribery in all its forms;

From NSPE Code of Ethics for Engineers:

III.4.b. Engineers shall not, without the consent of all interested parties, participate in or represent an adversary interest in connection with a specific project or proceeding in which the engineer has gained particular specialized knowledge on behalf of a former client or employer.

https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8 https://www.nspe.org/career-growth/nspe-code-ethics-engineer...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#544

Post by mejutoco »

rixed wrote: post #467
joe_mamba wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in l…

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.

I remember that experiment where they live kids with candy alone and see who takes it and lies about it.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#545

Post by davidwritesbugs »

embedding-shape wrote: post #535
palmotea wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for.

> $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for. That's because most of us here are so used to the amount of money we earn. But for people who literally struggling with month-to-month payments, 100K feels like a life-changing amount of money. If they were just saving month by month, they might have never reached that amount in their entire life. Our perspectives here on HN are very on…

Indeed, a lot of HN readers don't realise their good luck in life. It takes a dose of poverty to bring perspective.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#546

Post by sunnybeetroot »

Lio wrote: post #454

OpenAI is a company built on copyright violation. That means it’s in the corporate DNA to treat laws as things for little people. Apple have deep enough pockets that they can actually sue OpenAI but I bet OpenAI are surprised they got caught. Now ask yourself, would the Codex agents on your machine ever over step legal boundaries? Would OpenAI ever make use of data you, voluntarily, send to their servers? If they did…

And Apple is a company built on anti trust violations[1].

Every company that sees it profitable to break the law and pay a fine seems to do it. There are no “good guys”.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-complianc...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#547

Post by alpineman »

sk4rekr0w wrote: post #443
impulser_ wrote: post #350

This is basically the end of OpenAI hardware. This is by far worst than the Waymo vs. Uber lawsuit which killed the Uber self driving project. Also if you are a business using OpenAI models, I would highly suggest you do not because they are most likely looking at your code and IP.

This is way overstated. OpenAI will certainly launch devices. It is to be seen how competitive they are and how much product market fit they achieve. OpenAI also has better data retention policies relative to Anthropic on SOTA models.

Do you really believe those policies after stories like this?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#548

Post by xnx »

hawaiianbrah wrote: post #476
ElProlactin wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People do weird things when given sudden access to money or power. It's more that money and power enable you to be who you really are, and amplify your worst traits if you're lacking self-awareness. There are many people who are rich/wealthy and/or powerful and they're decent individuals living relatively ordinary lives. You don't read about most of them because they're "normal".

> It's more that money and power enable you to be who you really are If you’re only a certain way when you have money and power, is it really “who you really are”?

Yes. "Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals"

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#549

Post by olalonde »

general1465 wrote: post #470
azinman2 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. How do you know that?

They systematically violated copyright when they grabbed whole internet to train their models. Do you really believe that they will stop stealing because they signed some funny ToS? Especially when every bit of data they have and competition does not have is making their model better.

There's an important difference between "knowing" and "believing".

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#550

Post by Luker88 »

And everyone will keep using them, and nothing will happen, because the markets are completely irrational, sociopathic and nobody was actually in charge, regulations are bad etc...

What is the realistic expectation where megacorporations are above a good chunk of the law, the citizens can't hopefully pass any legislation and pardons are just a matter of a donation?

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