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Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

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Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#541

Post by narag »

somenameforme wrote: post #454
globalnode wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

int 21h !

Need some params! mov ah, 2 mov dl,7 Ahhh.. probably my first program. Don't forget the int 20 at the end! It was beeping great. Still never unlocked the mysteries of those TSR programs though.

Still never unlocked the mysteries of those TSR programs though.

I made a bunch of those, in TurboPascal. Just needed to save registers (including stack and heap segments) and hook some key combination. One of them was used commercially for installations by a very big company.

Testing was a little prone to spectacular failures. But once the general procedure was debugged, it was easy as pie.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#542

Post by gf000 »

LazyGooze wrote: post #515
Gareth321 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Linux needs a few things before it will be ready for mass consumer adoption. 1. An equivalent of kernel level anti-cheats. Cheating really sucks. It ruins online games. Kernel level anti-cheats aren't perfect, but they're much better than user-space or server-side anti-cheats. Maybe in the future AI solves this, but inherence-based anti-cheats are likely going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Valve have stated the…

the minute linux solves kernel level anti-cheat is the minute it wins the OS war, tons of friends have only windows on their PCs because of valorant or other multiplayer online game that uses anticheat.

"Solving" is one thing, adaption is another.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#543

Post by badsectoracula »

mappu wrote: post #444
Shorel wrote: post #426

Linux is one of the best Win-API platforms. It is the absolute best for backwards compatibility: it runs 16 bit apps. Now it is getting faster for gaming. And the reverse relation is also true: In Linux, the best backwards compatible stable API is WinAPI. I can play 30 year old Windows games in Linux. They just work and run better than ever. For the same project ( https://www.descent2.de ), I can not even install the…

I used to love Descent 2! People say this a lot about Linux and it somewhat rubs me the wrong way - sure, the Windows binary works if you install its library dependencies (wine). Likewise (OK, ever since libc5/glibc2 changeover in 2001) the Linux binary should work if you have its library dependencies (SDLv1 it looks like?). So what's really the problem? Your distribution stopped distributing the dependencies, making…

> the Windows binary works if you install its library dependencies (wine).

Yes but all it takes is an `apt-get install wine` or `zypper install wine` or `pacman -S wine` or your distro equivalent and if you are using a Linux distro with any sort of desktop functionality, 99% of the time wine will be there.

> Your distribution stopped distributing the dependencies, making them harder to find?

Yes, this is a big problem because these dependencies not only are harder to find but even if you track all of them (there is a chance they too have their own dependencies) you still need to figure out how to build and install them. And if they are old enough for distros to drop them, then chances are building them isn't going to be a straightforward `./configure && make && make install` ("straightforward" is very relative here :-P). And woe is you if there are conflicts with newer (yet API/ABI incompatible) versions of these libraries and/or their dependencies.

Of course since you have the source, technically you can make things work, but that doesn't make the process any less of a major PITA.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#544

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #323
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_Technologies_Operat... Thanks for sharing, never heard about it before. What was kernel programming back then? Briefly checked the wikipedia and looks like CTOS was kinda big in the government space back in the 80s.

It was popular with govt because it came with an HDLC network build-in, server/client depended on the OS you booted. This saved you a network administrator. The kernel was in Intel ASM86 but the rest of the OS was written in PLM86. When I joined it was 2MB of code on a 128K 8086 cpu. By the time I left it was 9MB of code running on an 80386.

Thanks Joe. Interesting knowledge. I managed to find a FAQ and was surprised that it made to the year 1999.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110708212436/http://www.ctosfa...

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#545

Post by WD-42 »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #536
rowanG077 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Immutability. Right now distributing games on Linux isn't distributing games "on Linux." It's distributing games to 12 different distros with a hundreds different configurations and a thousand customisations. This is impossible to support. When SteamOS gains traction, developers will be able to target exactly one distro with fixed configurations and limited customisations. Valve will set the standard for other d…

Did you not read what you quoted?

You didn’t. Steam already provides a runtime to target. SteamOS is largely independent from the actual game runtime. You already don’t need to target “12 versions” or whatever nonsense op posted.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#546

Post by simonask »

LazyGooze wrote: post #515
Gareth321 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Linux needs a few things before it will be ready for mass consumer adoption. 1. An equivalent of kernel level anti-cheats. Cheating really sucks. It ruins online games. Kernel level anti-cheats aren't perfect, but they're much better than user-space or server-side anti-cheats. Maybe in the future AI solves this, but inherence-based anti-cheats are likely going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Valve have stated the…

the minute linux solves kernel level anti-cheat is the minute it wins the OS war, tons of friends have only windows on their PCs because of valorant or other multiplayer online game that uses anticheat.

"Linux" doesn't need to do anything here. What's missing is for anticheat vendors to develop kernel modules for Linux in addition to their Windows drivers.

I personally hope they never do, because present day anticheat systems are literally closed-source rootkits. You should not let that software onto any computer you own.

But then I don't really have a horse in the race, because I don't find competitive gaming with strangers enjoyable at all.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#547

Post by __patchbit__ »

therealfigtree wrote: post #473
CyberDildonics wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I implemented a couple of traps What does this mean? System calls?

It's a trap

The F-14 Tomcat had an early period microprocessor and landing on an aircraft carrier would have the tailhook snag arresting wires in a trap. But the trap idea precedes the Tomcat by a decade in computing according to the AI.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#548

Post by coldpie »

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #535
neverkn0wsb357 wrote: post #295

Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. If you look at Steam, and OSs like Bazzite it’s clear the consumer-side is finally shoring up. But that aside, from an economic incentive, game providers (for example Amazon Luna), don’t want to be paying the licenses for running Windows machines for Video Game Streaming on Demand. In fact, at my time there…

The progress is vast, but at the same time, it feels overstated. Linux still is not a great daily driver for video games in many circumstances, unless you're on a specialized device like the steam deck that gets extra attention to smooth out the rough bits. On my gaming PC I haven't found a single game that runs noticeably faster in Linux. Most run considerably worse often while suffering various glitches (sometimes…

> Most run considerably worse often while suffering various glitches (sometimes game-breaking).

That's an interesting experience, I'd be interested to hear more. There certainly are games that do not work well, no question, but as far as I'm aware it's a pretty small minority. To my knowledge, the two biggest issues are anti-cheat and video codecs, both of which are business/legal problems, not technical issues. Are those the main problems you're seeing? If not, are you possibly running fairly niche games, or on a niche distro or specialized hardware setup?

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#549

Post by jayd16 »

WithinReason wrote: post #474
hedora wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that people want to play games with randos and 13-30 yr old basement dwellers on the internet, but the idea never appealed to me. If the vendors said: Disable anticheat and we’ll block you from tournaments / matchmaking, I’d consider that a feature, not a bug. If some IRL friend of mine wants to be an asshole and use auto aimers / see through walls to screw with me, then I have ways to deal with it outside the…

there should be just an anti-cheat lobby an a no anticheat lobby

Anti-cheat lobby and a "check out my cheats" lobby.

At best you can get no-anti-cheat private matches.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#550

Post by __patchbit__ »

harry8 wrote: post #483
jjmarr wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China solved this years ago with mandatory ID verification to play video games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-name_system_for_online_ga... This was to prevent children from getting addicted but also leads to real life penalties for cheating in video games.

This a new and exciting use of the word "solved." I don't think I'm completely comfortable with it, possibly due to being raised on a diet of anti-soviet propaganda that spoke of such thing as "freedom" "justice", not sure if people care much anymore but there it is.

In the time span of Nixon to Trump and Mao to Xi, America got caught by China.

The idea of Mao's face or Trump's face on the global reserve currency feels really off.

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