Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists • Hacker News Board

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#541

Post by closewith » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:02 PM UTC

nilamo wrote: post #501

closewith wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has not disintegrated. Obviously not because of this income scheme and not complete disintegration, but Irish society is under extreme strain from housing pressures, rising living costs, and growing polarisation that is tearing at social cohesion. It's frustrating to see funds allocated to this scheme when health, housing, transport, etc are all failing apart.

Why fix one problem, when another problem also exists?

Classic false dilemma. You're trying to frame my comment as “we can only ever fix one problem” when it is, in fact, “we have constrained resources and urgent systemic failures and so prioritisation is important”.

For example, Budget 2026 did not address the €307 million structural shortfall in university funding. Is basic income for artists a better allocation than third-level education? Or capital expenditure on cancer care? Or NAS opex?

I specifically disagree with this allocation of funds as we live in country filled with specific solvable structural and life-limiting problems that should be solved before artist wellbeing.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#542

Post by some_random » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:03 PM UTC

BryantD wrote: post #272

Ireland has already provided substantial benefits to artists — income from art is exempt from income tax up to a certain level. Society has not disintegrated. Speculation and anecdotes are not terribly useful but my Irish author friend is not from a rich family, nor is she well-off, but she’s able to support her husband and child in a smaller Irish city by dint of writing several books a year and stressing a lot. I d…

Ireland has not disintegrated, but it's society is under incredible pressure and is fewer missed meals away from a cultural revolution sized event than most places.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#543

Post by bagacrap » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:04 PM UTC

jcarrano wrote: post #444

"If you need subsidies in order to live off art, you don't live off art but live off the state". As part time artist I see many problems with these schemes: - Decoupled from people's actual appreciation of the art being done: I feel better when I know people voluntarily gave up their hard-earned money for what I do. - Monopoly-style "winner takes all". The people who benefit from this are the ones already in a positi…

Must feel pretty good when rich people get into a bidding war over your product!

I have a hobby and I don't get compensated for it (quite the opposite). It's not making art, but if art were my calling I could quite easily see myself making it without any hope of monetary reward. There are plenty of people who have the same hobby as me and don't have a job -- they pursue it as is it's a job, though most are not paid either. I view that as some combination of privilege and laziness.

If there's any problem here it's that people don't have enough time to pursue hobbies. I only have enough time because I work from home (no time wasted commuting). Perhaps the government should focus on where we as a society waste people's time and energy such that they have none left over for hobbies.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#544

Post by terminalshort » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:06 PM UTC

devmor wrote: post #264

terminalshort wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists who were paid for by willing buyers, not tax payers who don't have a choice.

Your taxes subsidize walmart and you don’t have a choice either.

And I don't like that either. Being ripped off once doesn't mean that I should be ok with being ripped off again. That doesn't offset.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#545

Post by some_random » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

BryantD wrote: post #398

closewith wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has not disintegrated. Obviously not because of this income scheme and not complete disintegration, but Irish society is under extreme strain from housing pressures, rising living costs, and growing polarisation that is tearing at social cohesion. It's frustrating to see funds allocated to this scheme when health, housing, transport, etc are all failing apart.

All true, but let's not lose track of relative costs. The income program provides €33,800,000 a year (2000 participants, €325 a week, 52 weeks in a year). Double that to account for cost of managing the program -- that seems too high to me, but I want to err on the side of caution for this analysis. Some percentage of that money flows right back into the economy, of course. Meanwhile, ignoring windfall corporate taxe…

Meanwhile, what's going to be the social effect of working stiffs living paycheck to paycheck seeing the government giving preference yet again to someone other than them?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#546

Post by elxr » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

BSDobelix wrote: post #379

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

>Go Ireland, great scheme. I wish we had it over here in the UK. It's a bad scheme, it divide's your population into people who have to create "wealth", and people who create "art". Yes creating art (or preserving rare potatoes[1]) should be supported by your government if it's not survivable in a capitalistic society, however having different rights because of your occupation is not better then the middle ages. [1]…

You get different rewards, not different rights.

It's the same as cities/governments spending on free public basketball courts/tennis courts/running tracks. I come from a country with none of those things, and the difference that makes on the average fitness/skill level of the population is massive compared to places where those things exist.

Both basic income, and public sporting infrastructure have a significant (but not unreasonable) upfront cost, but the payoff in even 2 years time will be massive. Provided the economics check out, there's no reason to not give it a shot.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#547

Post by Loudergood » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

Supernaut wrote: post #527

closewith wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for linking the CBA. I hadn't seen that before > "The headline finding from this social CBA is that for every €1 of public money invested in the pilot, society received €1.39 in return" Okay, so if you read the CBA, the net fiscal cost of the pilot was: * Gross pilot cost (2021–2025): ~€114 MM * Tax revenue: ~€36 MM * Social protection savings: ~€6.5 MM * Net fiscal cost: ~€72 MM So for every €1 of public mone…

Nicely set out. I completely agree with you. I'm also pretty certain - and I say this both as a lover of the arts and as a taxpayer - that I will see no benefit whatsoever in my life, or to society in general, from the works produced under the aegis of this programme. You know what would have been a worthwhile use of that €114 MM? Improving the pay and conditions of our naval personnel. That way, the nation might now…

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#548

Post by jimnotgym » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

closewith wrote: post #405

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Nirvana first moved from their small Washington town to Seattle, they were able to pay their rent + everything else from working minimum wage jobs for 2 weeks a month. They had time to practice music and pursue their art. In an era where working a full time job is not enough to pay the cost of living, arts and culture no longer exist except as hobbies for rich kids. Seattle successfully exterminated their entire…

> In an era where working a full time job is not enough to pay the cost of living, arts and culture no longer exist except as hobbies for rich kids. In Ireland _today_, we are in an era where working as a nurse, paramedic, firefighter, teacher, etc have become unable to pay the cost of living, leaving them to exist only as hobbies for the rich kids who can be subsidised by their parents or immigrant labour willing to…

> Is health not wealth? Education? Safety? Or does only the arts deserve this subsidisation?

Isn't that a false dichotomy? We can only afford health or the arts?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#549

Post by specialist » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:09 PM UTC

vessenes wrote: post #505

qeternity wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

You’re missing, somewhat gleefully, most of the history of western art, which you could imagine as split between patronage-based art (have you heard of the Sistine Chapel, for instance?) and vernacular art - where things like genre storytelling and family portraits come from. Broadly speaking, vernacular artists work for a fucking living; it’s rare there (like in most pursuits) to get super rich. We can’t all be Davi…

TIL "vernacular art". I like it.

Am noob. The phrase "folk art" never satisfied me. Is it really all that different? But I didn't have the gumption to learn more. Happily, the critics and philosophers did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_art

Thanks.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#550

Post by jimnotgym » Thu, Feb 12, 2026, 3:13 PM UTC

BSDobelix wrote: post #412

jimnotgym wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?

>Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. That's what i meant with the potatoes, the government pays for the field with the rare potatoes, and the standardized potatoes make wealth. >So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it? With free housing (art community's), tax free stuff (for small to medium sales etc) l…

But giving housing or tax breaks needs lots of admin. Isn't that less efficient?

Giving housing forces people to live in certain places. What if you are a traveling musician, you might be better off with a van.

It is like the Victorian view of giving charity. 'Don't give them money, give them food', like the people don't know what they need.