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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

thehill.com

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Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#541

Post by [deleted] »

pandaman wrote: post #540
bubblethink wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government settles this kind of cases because of politics, not merit. The government also files these cases in the first place because of politics, not merit. See my point about theater earlier. >If there had been a modicum of will to go after lawbreakers, these cases would try themselves - tons of witnesses, tons of evidence zero traces of "good faith". That's just like, your opinion, dude.

>The government also files these cases in the first place because of politics, not merit. See my point about theater earlier. Yeah, a completely different case by a different organization means this case is also political... I don't really know what to say at this point. You seem to be arguing on random tangents without touching the issue of this HN item: companies obfuscating job adverts for the positions involved i…

[deleted]

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#542

Post by antonvs »

like_any_other wrote: post #421
legitster wrote: post #172

So I was at a company that did this a lot - it was much less nefarious than on the surface. It was usually related to them recruiting a certain specialist or acquiring a team at another company. But the only way to get these people visas was to post the jobs publicly and hide them as much as possible. They did this by the hundreds, and it wasn't really a cost saving measure - if you are trying to get anybody in parti…

> Is it unfair? Maybe. But in my opinion anything is fairer than our country's evil immigration requirements. For some reason those stupid racist citizens don't want to compete with the whole world in a borderless economic zone. Thankfully we have wise corporations to subvert democracy for the better.

What’s evil about the current situation is that the system tries to have it both ways: bring in cheap foreign labor, but in such a way that makes it easy to exploit them and hard for them to become permanent residents or citizens.

If the country’s goal was really to avoid direct competition with people outside its borders, you wouldn’t deliberately import so many of them, and you’d also take steps to prevent businesses from depending so much on undocumented immigrant labor.

Now, you might say that you don’t agree with the government’s position on all these things, but in that case you ought to be more in line with the comment you replied to.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#543

Post by dh2022 »

thrawa8387336 wrote: post #384
bottlepalm wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy. We have some job openings. 500 applications each. 95% of them are people who did their undergraduate in India and graduate degree in America. My interviews this week have been 9/10 people with thick accents, terrible answers, not sure what the hell is going on. Is it HR, is it the leadership directing HR? No idea, but it feels like the company is shooting itself in the foot. Especially a growing company w…

It's HR. HR should just be headhunting, handled externally to the company. Legal can handle the rest.

At big tech companies HR is also full of Indian employees. Guess which candidates make it out in front of hiring managers or which candidates get interviews? American workers: your goose is cooked!!

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#544

Post by hvb2 »

Amezarak wrote: post #515
hvb2 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot compare between years like that. There are ups and downs, currently we're certainly not in an up except for special skills I guess. 5 years ago all of big tech massively overhired, they let go a lot of people later, so that's not a fair comparison. Also, you cannot expect a hiring manager to do everything. If the company decides I shouldn't be spending my time screening candidates then that's not what I do…

It sounds like you’re saying the job market imploded in the last five years. In that case, it seems like we should halt h1b visas until it recovers. > Also, you cannot expect a hiring manager to do everything. If the company decides I shouldn't be spending my time screening candidates then that's not what I do. Maybe it’s different for you. I hire people I have to work with, so I am going to do whatever it takes to m…

> It sounds like you’re saying the job market imploded in the last five years. In that case, it seems like we should halt h1b visas until it recovers.

In tech, yes. In general I don't know and not all h1b's are tech

> I hire people I have to work with, so I am going to do whatever it takes to make sure I get good candidates.

Same, but that doesn't mean I'm going to do the work someone upstream from me has already done again

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#545

Post by bubblethink »

pandaman wrote: post #540
bubblethink wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government settles this kind of cases because of politics, not merit. The government also files these cases in the first place because of politics, not merit. See my point about theater earlier. >If there had been a modicum of will to go after lawbreakers, these cases would try themselves - tons of witnesses, tons of evidence zero traces of "good faith". That's just like, your opinion, dude.

>The government also files these cases in the first place because of politics, not merit. See my point about theater earlier. Yeah, a completely different case by a different organization means this case is also political... I don't really know what to say at this point. You seem to be arguing on random tangents without touching the issue of this HN item: companies obfuscating job adverts for the positions involved i…

> different case by a different organization means this case is also political.

It's the same issue - the DOJ is going after companies and their ads. In SpaceX's case, the ads said citizen/LPR only due to export control, and DOJ got mad that it would exclude asylees and refugees for some of these positions which may not actually have export control requirements. Your complaint is also about ads and whether they are in print media or online or obfuscated etc. If you think that ads in print media violate the law, you need to prove that in a court of law. Note that the law explicitly requires ads in Sunday newspapers, whereas online ads are not mandatory. There is a check list of what is and is not required, and the lawyers are following the text (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/656.17). The government doesn't think that there is positive EV in taking it to trial, and hence settles. You, as an individual, can still pursue a civil suit if you are injured.

>For all I know you might not even know what does "good faith" mean

There are thousands of bogus laws in the books and the government is not your friend. Good faith in this context means doing the minimal amount of work needed to comply with the law. Innocent until proven guilty, and the government has the burden of proof. This is how I view all interactions with the state.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#546

Post by remarkEon »

zer00eyz wrote: post #322
remarkEon wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn’t. There are two instances on this website where supply and demand seemingly do not apply. Wages in tech engineering, and housing costs. Specific carve outs are always made to make the conclusion that, for some reason, this positive supply (workers) and demand (housing) shock has no or marginal impact on wages and housing respectively. It’s very odd since most here work in roles where supply and demand of c…

Show me the reduction in cost for medical care when 1/4 of the doctors in the US are foreign born medical grads, the bulk of whom came through the H1B program. Show me the American born doctors on the street going hungry while foreigners take their jobs. Show me the reduction in wages or costs. > supply and demand seemingly do not apply. Wages in tech engineering, and housing costs. Were drowing in data on both of th…

>Show me the reduction in cost for medical care when 1/4 of the doctors in the US are foreign born medical grads, the bulk of whom came through the H1B program.

If this is true it is a genuine national security emergency, not least because foreign standards for practicing medicine are not the same as they are here. I've never encountered a foreign born medical grad in all my years. Where do they work?

>These are smart people who end up in high level roles who end up staying and becoming Americans (agin raising the bar).

I didn't make any claim about the intelligence of H1b visa holders, though it's interesting that you immediately went on the defensive there. I'll say this: if you had a poor experience with American engineers that suggests there is a pipeline problem, no? Ostensibly, my government should be interested in fixing that problem since, allegedly, that's where its priorities lie. I totally get it that the H1b program allows companies to lower their demand signal to US-based institutions that would otherwise produce more of these people that you need. Sorry you worked with some shitty engineers, it happens.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#547

Post by mrtesthah »

tomhow wrote: post #298
mrtesthah wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Eschew flamebait. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Hmm ok, I don’t see how my comment violates those points. Did I lie?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#548

Post by anticensor »

fakedang wrote: post #362
scheme271 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

L1 employees require that the company employ the person for a year at an international branch so this is only available to multi-national companies.

Yes, and the usual suspects already abuse it to move jobs abroad. If you had observed, it's often multinationals, usually Indian consultancies or companies with Indian Capability Centers, which abuse the H1B. They'll just be forced to switch to the L1. The key difference here is that the L1 is a non-immigrant visa with a period of 7 years. The H1B isn't.

Why not filter it by ISIC&ISCO codes (if sector not in whitelisted ISIC code or job not in whitelisted ISCO code, automatic reject of company's immigrant worker request with return code "domestic talent exists")?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#549

Post by bubblethink »

Bratmon wrote: post #520
ab_testing wrote: post #287

I think the hill is trying to create a narrative here. The law specifically states to post job postings in newspapers and it is congress's fault if they have not updated the laws. As per PERM regulations (20 C.F.R. §656.17): For professional positions (those requiring a bachelor’s degree or higher), the employer must conduct two Sunday newspaper advertisements in a newspaper of general circulation in the area of inte…

I don't understand how that justifies Instacart suing the organization that is reposting the job ads in a more accessible way.

Instacart sent a cease and desist for trademark violation. You cannot become a middleman for random businesses/services. Kind of similar to how doordash and others got into trouble by hijacking restaurants' order flow without consent.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#550

Post by SirChud »

mpyne wrote: post #248
nyolfen wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No Silicon Valley company that I know of pays H-1B and citizens different wages on that basis. larger pool means lower wages. this is so fundamental and obvious that it feels like i'm being gaslit when i see shit like this.

Well it's because by this logic we should just stop Americans from studying for computing jobs as well, that way those who remain will have higher wages. Just as the Luddites tried to stop the rise of industrialization that threatened to bring the skills they used to employ to the wider public at lower costs. The real answer is that immigrants create enough economic demand to be net positive even for Americans, for m…

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