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At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

nytimes.com

541–550 of 585 posts

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist It just manifests as racism.

Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism. Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race. But a whole lot of people dislike people due to culture or class signals.

Since you brought it up, this political-leaning topic is fair game.

> Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism.

This is bald-faced racism denialism and makes a sweeping generalization. For example, the Trump administration is going after immigrants not for economic or class reasons but as a dogwhistle for their Floridian golf club members who don't like minorities of any sort and to appease a large section of the base of covert and overt racists generally. There is no logic in exiling and disappearing the low cost labor needed to product food, build homes, and do the terrible jobs that make civilization possible.. because it is mission of dumb people sabotaging themselves and others. The selective protection plus oppression and criminalization of undocumented people is grounded in the need to control a desperate, underpaid population to keep prices of agriculture, home construction, and restaurant prices lower than paying ordinary, livable wages to them.

> Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race.

You can't know this. And, it's leans towards false because of how propinquity works.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#542
post #261
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are assumed correct in UK courts. IT systems were legally considered infallible This will change when elected officials start getting hoisted by their own electronic petards. The Venn diagram of midwit enterprise developers who build systems with audit trails yet could not swear under penalty of perjury that the audit trail is absolutely correct in every case is almost a circle.

Show me a system for which you believe the audit trail is absolutely correct in every case and I’ll show you a midwit…

I may be dumb but isn't this what a merkle tree does? Or the blockchain sort of does (with 51% confidence?)

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism. Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race. But a whole lot of people dislike people due to culture or class signals.

Since you brought it up, this political-leaning topic is fair game. > Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism. This is bald-faced racism denialism and makes a sweeping generalization. For example, the Trump administration is going after immigrants not for economic or class reasons but as a dogwhistle for their Floridian golf club members who don't like minorities of any sort and to appease a large secti…

>ut as a dogwhistle for their Floridian golf club members who don't like minorities of any sort and to appease a large section of the base of covert and overt racists generally.

I mean, here's how I see it, if 100 million Polish people, a very white peoples, suddenly claimed asylum in the US, had 300 million anchor babies to exploit that loophole, used the anchor baby army to claim massive funds of welfare in aggregate, all the while claiming zero income while working under the table and undercutting the common man ... ... and also driving drunk and refusing to learn any English and demanding Americans ought to learn Polish

If the Polish people did that I'd have it in to deport them all. And it wouldn't be about race at all, it would be the overwhelming unfair advantages and systematic exploits the Polish performed in this case. The racist narrative is just another manifestation of "playing the race card" to defend indefensible, selfish, toxic behavior

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#544
post #140

This was depressing to read. Failures at so many levels. 1. Immediately after Horizon was rolled out, issues were reported. But ignored 2. Prosecutors didn't bother to verify if there is another explanation before accusing thousands of people of stealing? Isn't it common sense to pause for a second and think, "could we please double check the evidence? how can thousands of postal workers suddenly turn into thieves?"…

>Failures at so many levels.

Describes pretty much the vast majority of people. All groups/institutions/enterprises made of such people will follow a similar path. Point being - there is no hope.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#545
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a myth as far as I’ve been able to determine. The prosecutions were ordinary private prosecutions. The Post Office didn’t need any kind of special legal status in order to prosecute.

Well, hey, far be it for me to tell you that you’re wrong, but the BBC says that you’re wrong as do numerous other sources. > The Post Office itself took many cases to court, prosecuting 700 people between 1999 and 2015. Another 283 cases were brought by other bodies, including the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wpp4w14pqo.amp

That isn’t inconsistent with what I said. The Post Office prosecuted under the general right for private individuals or companies to bring a prosecution.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#546
post #255

I know this is only tangentially relevant, but as someone who lives in the UK the inhuman and process driven nature of the way the state operates today is terrifying to me. Several times in recent years I've had people significantly financially and emotionally affected by what amounts to just fairly minor errors of judgement that the state treats as deliberate criminal acts and will follow up on with absolutely no hu…

>Sadly we'll learn nothing from this.

True. There is no hope.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#547
post #384

Don't forget her name: Paula Vennells (Royal Mail CEO). She went on record to state there was no issue despite reports. I'm sure we're see justice for her actions. /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells Remember her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPYo_gq329w

She alone is not to blame, she's doing what a psychopath is expected to do.

Blame people who gave her that power and did not monitor her abuse of the power she had.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#548
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely scandalous. What kind of engineer is she?

Hopefully an unemployed one. She deserves to be thrown into jail.

In her late 60s so I expect she's retired but has the threat of impending prosecution hanging over her head along with other colleagues https://archive.ph/YH9GO

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that contempt arises in both cultures. My point about the UK was more around the phenomenon that the class "obsession" stems from the notion that somebody's class in the UK is ostensibly immutable from birth. (It is my impression that class in the US is much more about money; your status and class can be correlated / increased by your level of wealth). In the UK it doesn't really matter if you become a millio…

From my experience living most of my life in the UK from birth there is an element of truth to class being immutable - being directly linked to money and the status of property ownership - for now anyway. The Thatcher years created an opportunity for working class (who traditionally lived in rent controlled properties due to low income) to purchase their houses for pennies on the dollar. Suddenly, millions of familie…

To clarify, I did grow up in what could be considered British middle class, but our one family holiday of the year was 2 weeks camping in France (Eurocamp, late 80s/early 90s). I think I was about 10 before experiencing an aeroplane after my 2 older siblings moved out. On the plus side (which I appreciate even more as an adult) there was always money available for education (i.e school trips), activities, musical instruments (including lessons) - even a PC to nurture my curiosity in technology! Financial security for the family was top priority and consider myself very fortunate in that regard.

Re: At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s class contempt too, no one wants to be one of the poors .

There isn't as much contempt for the rich as there should be. The poor despise themselves for being poor, instead of the rich for making them that way.

Funny what happens to the poor when the rich control what they think, eh?
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