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Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

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Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#541
post #399

Do you guys miss owning things and they were just...yours? Like, you paid money for them and then you had them and you had full control over them and someone half a world away wasn't able to reach into your house and break them or make them do evil things?

You don't understand the situation in this case. This is not some auto-update, people have to put some serious effort into updating manually... effin soundbar. Why on earth would anybody do that? I have these speakers, exactly model D, it works flawlessly either via eArc with TV or Bluetooth with both android and apple, there is absolutely nothing to fix or improve. You have to tinker with USB key and obscure series…

> there is absolutely nothing to fix or improve

Turning of the dammed display would be an improvement. I don't want an animation playing telling me that yes it's still connected to the TV via eARC every time I change the volume on the TV.

Being able to disable the "microphone off" indicator LED would also be great.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certificates expire.

I think there is a strong argument to simply not checking certificate expiry dates in embedded hardware. Just keep using the expired certificate forever. Sure - that means if someone leaks the private key that everyone worldwide needs to do a firmware update to get security. But that's probably less user harm than everyone worldwide needing to do a firmware update to replace an expired cert, and having a dead device…

At the very least the user should be able to override the failing certificate check. So much "security" cargo culting is intentionally planned failure.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#543
post #518
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar experience with my high-end Samsung TV from 2013. The TV itself still works perfectly so I'm not replacing it soon (still 1080p, not 4K, but...), but over time, Samsung has steadily removed key features with each update. When I first bought it, it supported Skype video calls (and now the integrated webcam can't be used at all), IPTV streaming, and various third-party apps — all of which are now gone.…

It's kinda common knowledge at this point that almost all Smart TV's suck, especially Samsung. I went the Samsung route as well - the TV itself is fine, but the software is horrible. The solution (that I hope everyone knows about by now) is to buy an Apple TV and connect it. Once the TV starts, it shows Apple TV from the get-go and not any of the Samsung stuff.

> The solution (that I hope everyone knows about by now) is to buy an Apple TV and connect it. Once the TV starts, it shows Apple TV from the get-go and not any of the Samsung stuff.

Or just connect the TV to your PC where you have the freedom to run whatever software you want. Why replace one crappy "smart" device with another.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#544
post #70
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar experience with my high-end Samsung TV from 2013. The TV itself still works perfectly so I'm not replacing it soon (still 1080p, not 4K, but...), but over time, Samsung has steadily removed key features with each update. When I first bought it, it supported Skype video calls (and now the integrated webcam can't be used at all), IPTV streaming, and various third-party apps — all of which are now gone.…

The issue is not Samsung per se, it is the smart TV crap we can't get rid of. With luck there are some old TVs still on remaining stock and that is about it.

But you can at least for now still use those "smart" TVs as dumb displays for whatever device you want and just ignore the fact that the TV is running a full android stack or similar. There really is no need to scrounge for older devices with inferior display tech.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#545

Two important features I insist on for products I develop: 1. Staged rollout of firmware updates. It’s common practice for apps and software but for some reason it’s less common with firmware. Rolling out to 1% (or less, depending on scale) of devices and waiting a day is cheap insurance. Side note: Build a good relationship with customer service people so you hear about these things immediately. 2. A failsafe firmwa…

> A failsafe firmware reset back to factory state. This doesn't work if your threat model includes denying rollbacks to prevent exploiting bugs in old firmware. I'd love to be able to roll-back firmware on some of my devices to allow me to "jailbreak" them using old firmware. In some cases your newer firmware may be blowing e-fuses that prevent old firmware from functioning. See the Nintendo Switch, for an example. T…

This practice should simply be illegal or at least make the manufacturer liable for a full refund plus interest. We shouldn't let manufacturers brick devices that we own.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#546
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why else would a soundbar need updates anyway? It either performs its well defined functions when you bought it or they sold you a device that doesn’t input/output sound. Unfortunately there are soooo f..ing many devices out there that don't follow the specs, no wonder given how long and complex alone the Bluetooth specifications are, and HDMI/HDCP (which a soundbar with ARC support needs...) is even worse, and don…

While I agree with what you wrote > [...] GPUs that run HDMI over DVI [...] I thought HDMI and DVI use the same signalling (at least the 'digital part' of DVI, was it DVI-D?), just over a different connector? In my memory only the connectors competed for adoption, and Home Entertainment industry opted for HDMI and the PC-industry opted for DVI, while the signalling was not contested (besides DVI also being able to ca…

Even without the relative size difference of the TV and PC industries, the HDMI connector is simply more compact than the DVI connector.

Now Display Port vs HDMI is a more interesting competition and it would have been nice to have a clear DP victory here.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#547
post #350
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked for Samsung, but I built TVs for JVC and LG, among many other brands. I don't work in consumer electronics anymore but a decade ago that was my field. TVs are a wildly unprofitable business. It's astoundingly bad. You get 4-6 months to make any profit on a new model before it gets discounted so heavily by retailers that you're taking a bath on each one sold. So every dollar in the BOM (bill of material…

Thanks for sharing. Without insight beyond being a consumer, I do think there's room for disription (ideally from within the industry itself) vs 10y ago. Comparing models from 2005/2015/2025, for example. Most people literally can't tell 4k from 1080 and anything new in the HD race mostly feels like a scam. The software capabilities are all there. I think to differentiate from the no-name stuff, longevity is going to…

We tried to disrupt the market, back about 10 years ago.

One of the significant problems is that 80% of TV SOCs are made by one company, MStar (or their subsidiary). And there's only a handful of companies who make the motherboards with those chipsets. Anyone entering the market either buys those or isn't competitive. It's hard to be competitive because everything is so concentrated and consolidated. Since ST Microelectronics and Broadcom left the TV chip market it became a much less diverse market.

We were an established company who made software for STBs, we had done a ground-up build of what was probably the most capable and powerful framework for TV/DVRs. The new design was commissioned from us by a well known open source Linux distro, who then decided they didn't want to continue with the project after they realised that getting into TV OS's was hard. We then took on ownership of that project but getting investment or even commitments from buyers was impossible.

The retailers and TV brands wanted to rehash the same thing over and over because that was tried and tested. It didn't matter that we made something that was provably better and used modern approaches, it wasn't worth the effort for them. If you can't order about 500,000 TVs then you're not going to get anyone to make anything custom for you these days and you'll not make a profit.

--

It was a DVR/TV framework that was designed by people who had worked for big names in the TV business with a clean slate. It would handle up to 16 different broadcast networks (e.g. satellite, terrestrial, cable) and up to 255 tuners, even hot pluggable. Fast EPG processing and smart recording to either internal storage or USB storage. It was user friendly and allowed for HTML5 apps. We pushed it as much as we could but eventually on the brink of financial ruin the company was sold to someone who had no interest in what had been built. I will always feel that something great was lost.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#548
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the obvious solution is to isolate the device from the world. Most of my stereo is isolated from “the world”, and some parts are close to 30 years old. Why does a soundbar need contact with the internet?

Why does a soundbar need software? An active speaker with a jack plug would work just fine

At least in theory these Samsung sound bars are supposed to adapt to the listening environment to more accurately render the intended surround sound. They also have various non-trivial inputs (including wireless ones) as well as support for additional real speakers and subwoofers which again might need changes for compatibility.

Of course they could be designed to be simpler and have whatever input device is used (e.g. the TV) handle fancy features like mobile phone support.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a strong argument to simply not checking certificate expiry dates in embedded hardware. Just keep using the expired certificate forever. Sure - that means if someone leaks the private key that everyone worldwide needs to do a firmware update to get security. But that's probably less user harm than everyone worldwide needing to do a firmware update to replace an expired cert, and having a dead device…

At the very least the user should be able to override the failing certificate check. So much "security" cargo culting is intentionally planned failure.

99% of consumers don't understand what that means and if we normalise the average consumer bypassing certificate checks that's definitely a bad thing.

Re: Samsung Q990D unresponsive after 1020 firmware update

#550
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certificates expire.

Not my problem as a buyer. Build the infrastructure to make certificates and everything else work for a reasonably long time. Service is part of the contract.

That's the point, there are no substantive contracts between you and the OS. If we want apps to be responsible for root certs that's interesting, but then the app needs some roof of trust with the OS anyway.
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