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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#541

Post by FredPret »

criddell wrote: post #427
FredPret wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. I have a collection of small, US-focused websites. I'm investigating low-effort ways to geo-fence the EU. At some point it just becomes easier to ban Europeans, rather than keep up with whatever they'll come up with next. I saw in this thread that the Google fonts on my website are now a problem as well!? That's the first I heard of it.

> That’s the first I heard of it. This is the perfect example of why government oversight is needed. You run a bunch of websites and aren’t aware that you are inadvertently involved in violating the privacy of the people who visit your sites. How are non-technical people supposed to deal with this?

No, this is a perfect example of the exact opposite.

A bureaucrat on the other side of the planet comes to a conclusion and I, who never voted for this person or knew about their existence, am legally bound by their decision.

On pain of who knows what fines or penalties. I’m nearly overwhelmed by the amount of work on my core product, I can’t add “keep up with European legal opinion” to my todo list as well.

As I said, it’s simpler to just geofence everything.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#542

Post by estaseuropano »

iofiiiiiiiii wrote: post #504
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

Microsoft will be storing EU users' data in the EU: https://blogs.microsoft.com/eupolicy/2021/05/06/eu-data-boun... Will this enable them to comply with the requirements?

Not if they have to provide this data under the cloud act.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#543

Post by jimbob45 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #268
londons_explore wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the big tech companies are very reluctant to split their operations inside/outside europe. They gain big benefits by having a single pool of datacenters able to serve users from anywhere in the world. If they needed to guarantee that an EU user would always be served with a machine in the EU, I can imagine it would add at least 20% to their operating costs. They'd need more equipment both inside and…

"I can imagine it would add at least 20% to their operating costs." Why is everybody working on the assumption that all this data has to sit in the US? Keep it in a country with the strict-est possible privacy laws, say Switzerland, and noone would complain.

Right now, the data sits where it “loses” the least amount of money (I.e. where it is most efficiently spaced). If we start arbitrarily forcing companies to move their data elsewhere, then they’ll incur serious costs without any real benefit.

I’d almost rather just give a French company control over some section of the US warehouse if I’m Amazon.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#544

Post by kergonath »

tyfon wrote: post #164
sfifs wrote: post #83

A lot of this seems to be coming due to US regulations that compel US registered companies to hand over data from subsidiaries in Europe markets if asked by US intelligence and law enforcement agencies. With these various data locality regulations, i wonder if a standard operating approach could be to split tech companies into 3 legal entities, a technology licensing company, a US registered operations company and a…

The EU part cannot be owned by the US entity since the US government can compel the US mother company to have it's subsidiary hand over data. In fact this is how most of the companies operate already to cheat on taxes. The way microsoft did it for a while here in Norway was to license azure cloud stuff to a sub operator (EVRY) that is completely insulated except for the licensing agreement.

> The EU part cannot be owned by the US entity since the US government can compel the US mother company to have it's subsidiary hand over data.

As it stands, the US part can be owned by a EU company. Or, probably more realistically, both EU and US parts could be owned by a mail box in the Caimans.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#545

Post by mekkkkkk »

verdverm wrote: post #516
mekkkkkk wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaking up the current situation doesn't seem to be an entirely bad thing. As it stands, the majority of the internet is depending/residing on datacenters provided by a handful of companies. I'm not sure that's a good thing. Building satisfactory alternatives to Office, Workspaces etc. isn't a monumental task by any stretch. With the sudden demand that you predict, they'll spring up like weeds. This might be ham-fist…

If replacing Office / Workspaces is not a monumental task, why are there only two good options? Workspaces is only just becoming a viable replacement for enterprise because pivot tables are hard.

A big reason is that competing with them on equal footing is a monumental task. You are working against network effects, heavy duty marketing, integrations into other products and a whole army of developers.

Developing the product itself isn't the reason.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#546

Post by fleddr »

keewee7 wrote: post #487
fleddr wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the tools will be adjusted to comply. The EU combined is the largest economic region in the world. With backdrop the other huge one China where doing business has become increasingly difficult and volatile. Tech giants cannot afford to pull out of the EU. Call their bluff, they won't. They can't even if they wanted to, as shareholders will skin them alive.

>The EU combined is the largest economic region in the world. It's not 2011 anymore. The GDP of the US has surpassed the GDP of the EU.

Is this with or without money printing?

I'm teasing. I accept your new data, but I don't think it fundamentally changes my point.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#547

Post by bluecalm »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #514
elevader wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR also applies to the real world. That store is definitely not allowed to share data about your shopping habits with some third party without your explicit consent. For example government departments in Germany have to aks for your explicit permission beforehand if they need to request/share data with a different department.

Is your claim that they can't share a customer's address with a shipping customer, and thus must actually perform all shipping themselves?

GDPR has an exception for things that are necessary for the service the customer asked for. If you ordered something to be shipped to your home then the provider can share your address with the shipping company - that's required to fulfill their end of the deal. Sending your personal information to some 3rd party advertising company? Not so much.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#548

Post by youngtaff »

mwint wrote: post #335
gspencley wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're within your rights to create and offer whatever kind of service you want. As an end-user, however, any data what-so-ever sent to a 3rd party without my knowledge or consent is too much. There is no such thing as "the right amount." I'm OK with websites using self-hosted tools such as Matomo as long as the data never leaves their servers. Analytics is important to any business. But I choose to do business with…

> any data what-so-ever sent to a 3rd party without my knowledge or consent is too much So do you want “we want to load JS from a CDN like literally everyone does, is that okay” popups on every website?

You should self-host 3rd-party libraries for performance and reliability reasons anyway

- reduces the number of TCP connections - reduced the risk of failure if the relevant edge node can't be reached

Browsers don't support cross-site caching of 3rd-party content so whatever limited benefits there might have been of using a library CDN are long gone

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#549

Post by kergonath »

Spivak wrote: post #188
KingOfCoders wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is more nuanced: The problem is not the handing over (happens here too), but the fact EU citizens do not get informed this has happend and have no legal way to challenge this (especially concerning FISA/FISC). They have the opportunity to do so in the EU. Yes, this is what will happen with a setup of 3 entities, b/c FANG will not want to miss EU revenue.

Right but the solution is for there to be a treaty between the US and the EU that allows for this. Putting the burden on every foreign company to duplicate their infrastructure is stupid work to solve a human problem.

Treaties are not necessarily worth much these days, when the next populist can just pull out unilaterally, or decide that following international law is for chumps.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#550

Post by chaxor »

vault wrote: post #367
nickpp wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder who are people more afraid of exposing their private information to: the USA or their own government.

The USA, of course. Don't forget you vote for your government, not for Google's CEO.

"The government has a defect. It's potentially democratic.

Corporations have no defect - They're pure tyrannies."

- Noam Chomsky

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