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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#541

Post by lurquer »

dfxm12 wrote: post #391
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

What type of responses did you get? I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.). There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other…

> who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.)

Eric Clapton took both doses. He suffered some severe adverse reactions. What’s the misinfo?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#542

Post by slumdev »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221
version_five wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

> Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?

A vaccine that (1) did not use cell lines from aborted fetuses at any point in its discovery, development, testing, or production, and that (2) has been studied for 10 years to determine long-term safety and efficacy like we would do with any other vaccine.

What would it take to change your mind?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#543

Post by kelnos »

makomk wrote: post #397
zamalek wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're having a vaccinated wedding. Unvaccinated/uninvited guests are now employing the base rate fallacy: "there are more breakthroughs than unvaccinated cases."

The thing is, it's not actually a fallacy when you're working out how much benefit getting rid of the remaining unvaccinated people would have. Think about it this way: if there are say 20 vaccinated people and 5 unvaccinated people with Covid, vaccinating all the remaining people or banning them from whatever event won't do anything about the 20 vaccinated breakthrough cases. So the ratio of unvaccinated cases to va…

Except that in reality there aren't 20 vaccinated people and 5 unvaccinated people with COVID. There is 1 vaccinated person and 49 unvaccinated people with COVID.

Regardless, your argument doesn't make any sense. If anyone -- vaccinated or not -- has COVID, they should be required to stay home. If an unvaccinated person does not yet have COVID, we should push them to get vaccinated, because then they will be much less likely to get the disease, and if they do get it, serious illness or hospitalization will be vanishingly unlikely.

Vaccination also reduces the "breeding ground" for mutations. At this point it's critical that we slow down the creation and spread of new variants that might do a better job of getting around our existing vaccines.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#544

Post by dbrueck »

valenterry wrote: post #361
briffle wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of that, can you share a link? I would like to read more.

Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy

That link says "symptoms occurred one to two months after vaccination" or am I misreading it?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#545

Post by hall0ween »

learc83 wrote: post #516
hall0ween wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? It's a bold claim, without any evidence to back it up. HN is different than the comments section of a news site.

Look through a list of vaccine safety recalls. Here's a highlight of the big ones--this is the list that most vaccine hesitant people talk about when they discuss their issues with vaccine safety. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.... None of the side effects in that list took more than a few weeks to occur, and the majority them happened within a few days. >HN is different than the comments…

Content for one, do you see many memes here? tik tok videos? pictures of dogs and cats?

Typically the dialogue is more...dialogue than just cynicism.

What's your reasoning it is Reddit?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#546

Post by the-rc »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #434
mlang23 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experience similar things. Frankly, I think the media has put so many weird labels on people who choose not to vaccinate that after the lockdowns, the vaxed people found a sort of sensation in talking to non-vaxed people. It felt like in a zoo. "So, you are not vaxed because you are afraid of the pain?" The actual reason for most, which is "I have decided to risk an infection to let my immune system do its job" is…

> The actual reason for most, which is "I have decided to risk an infection to let my immune system do its job" To be fair, this is what the vaccines do.

Yeah, what does the vaccine do that the virus doesn't? There's a lot the latter does that the former doesn't. That's the part I don't get.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#547

Post by disease »

nyokodo wrote: post #420
not2b wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone might be holding out for a reason they can't articulate or justify, so they give have an answer to your question (what would it take to change your mind?) but it might not be the true one or the sufficient one. I hope that this latest change sways some people but I don't think it will be a lot.

> it might not be the true one or the sufficient one. Unless you’re dealing with an extraordinary individual or the issue is relatively trivial then you won’t be told sufficient reasons. A lot of what motivates us is deep down and dumb and we rarely want to admit it even if we’re aware of it which is even rarer. I find that examining reasons to change my own mind is much more fruitful because it’s harder to lie to my…

A lot of it is simply narcissism. Many people who are deeply involved in conspiracy culture have professional, emotional, or social frustrations and are grasping for explanations about why they aren't getting the things that they want out of life.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#548

Post by hajile »

endisneigh wrote: post #251
miked85 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got the vaccine, I am not saying don't get it. I am saying those who choose not to get it have very valid reasons for it.

Not really. Basically you get 45-75% efficacy or you roll the dice on getting Covid and potentially dying depending on age. Not to mention your article was about infection not hospitalization. If you do that it makes even less sense.

The real question is about future strains. COVID was pretty much completely stable for over a year (minor variants without anything super significant changing). Once the vaccine was introduced, a bunch of variants started popping up.

It makes perfect evolutionary sense. Loads of variations appear in every infected individual. The most effective version takes over and is most likely to be passed on to others.

Most vaccines are so effective that the virus never gains a foothold. With the mRNA vaccines, people still get sick. You get tons of mutations and the original strain is no longer the most efficient because of the vaccine. so now there's tons of room for variants to form which work around the vaccine. Once an effective bypass happens, it takes off and you instantly get a new strain, but more resistant.

At the current rate, we're only a few short jumps away from a completely ineffective vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#549

Post by lots2learn »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #442
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. The political status of this website requires me to disclaimer. I expect even with the disclaimer I will be attacked regardless. If not downvoted to the point that my words are hidden. Which isn't much of a prediction because this post is already downvoted. >This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Thin…

reddit consists mostly of edgy teenagers that have absolutely no experience with real life. The NH community would do well to start putting it out of its' mind. TBH I'm pretty disappointed to see the commentary on HN cite reddit and wikipedia as often as they do.

Can you please provide the source for the 6% figure? Thanks.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#550

Post by [deleted] »

dionian wrote: post #436
hunterb123 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question long-term effects of mRNA vaccines, anti-vaxxer! Question certain "green" program spending, climate-denier! Question voting or border security, racist! Question certain political figures, conspiracy theorist! Issues are much more nuanced than a one word dismissal used to dehumanize the dissenter. You can be hesitant of these new mRNA vaccines but for classic vaccines that use dead / weakened viruses, that do…

The more they mandate it instead of convince me with science, the more I am skeptical.

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