Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#541

Post by martimarkov » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #490

martimarkov wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one like the single store because it creates consistency. For developers, for privacy info, for subscriptions. If sideloading is allowed when then malware is also close to get on the phone. Not my phone probably but the average joe, my family members, students, etc.

> I for one like the single store because it creates consistency. For developers, for privacy info, for subscriptions. So... don't use other app stores? Nobody is forcing you to. > If sideloading is allowed when then malware is also close to get on the phone. Not my phone probably but the average joe, my family members, students, etc. Average Joe's aren't even going to know that sideloading apps is an option, let alo…

Well that’s not true. Let’s just look at game stores. It’s super fragmented because companies want to control everything.

They optimise for profit not end-user experience. On the other hand within the iOS ecosystem the store optimises for the end-user (more or less).

So enabling different stores will create a more fractured ecosystem. Something that hinders my experience. Why would I support this?

I’d only support it if: * All apps from other stores are always in the App Store * All apps still use the in-app payment functionality and not some 3rd party system that I’m not sure steals my data. I’m also okay if the apps are forced to use Apple Pay if they don’t want to use in-app purchase functionality.

With that said I don’t see how any of those can be enforced.

What is essentially going to happen is to lower the overall security of apps on the iOS platform.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#542

Post by martimarkov » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #515

martimarkov wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don’t buy an iPhone. Same question to you.

Do you block ads on the web? If you do, then why don't you just choose a different site instead? Aren't the publishers and advertisers entitled to their cut for producing and delivering your content? Mobile phones are critical computing devices, even taking over as wallets and keys for many people. There should be some standard of freedom enforced when half of the market is effectively controlled by a single massive…

Because I think they service me better this way. I don’t want to have an ecosystem that allows malware to be an option.

I explicitly bought my iOS device so that all software that is possible to be installed will always be vetted. I don’t have to worry about my parents being tricked by either maliciously crafted websites or false promises like cheaper price but they get all your data. Companies are not going to be upfront about their store’s policies.

So my argument is not the profit motive. Sure apple should probably charge 10%. 30% might be greedy BUT my issue with that is that any number is arbitrary.

Apple created the platform, the device. Fine the developers played a huge part in making iOS a success BUT nobody forced them to build for the platform. If Apple increased the % then yeah - sure I’d be behind lowering them and be angry with Apple but as of now: users want an apple device and developers have a choice to Cather to them or not. There are a lot of Android only apps that work fine so I think it’s fine if you don’t support ios

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#543

Post by threatofrain » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

wernercd wrote: post #534

Dylan16807 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misread the question. They didn't ask what this is, they asked what would qualify as collusion and racketeering if this doesn't.

Correct... let me know what is if this isn't because companies colluding to set prices? not sure what I'm missing if this isn't it...

How is the answer misplaced? It's saying that you don't need price collusion or racketeering or mens rea of any sort to informally converge on a position.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#544

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:59 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #516

chrisseaton wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you know Apple already does it for MacOS right? Possibly that experience led them to not do it when they had the clean slate of iOS.

Yet MacOS is doing fine, even after introducing its own App Store. And the iPhone originally started with no apps and added them as user interest grew. Apple knows people would like this, and they have the resources to easily make it happen. The primary reason, as clearly shown by the way fees are currently levied, is purely for profit.

[deleted]

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#545

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:11 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #514

chrisseaton wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've misread my comments. I didn't predict anything. I asked if it had been found to be illegal. It hasn't. So I don't know how you're describing it as 'illegal'. Apple clearly believe it's legal, and no authority has given an opinion otherwise yet. > And your position, is that you think ... that no judge will rule against them Sorry I'm afraid you've misread again - I didn't say this anywhere. Where do you…

> I think you've misread my comments. No, I really didn't. If you agreed with me that Apple's actions are illegally anti-competitive, then you wouldn't ask why/how/when their actions are illegal. So yes, by asking me why/how/when their actions are illegal, you are disagreeing with me. Thats what it means to ask that. We'll see if you were right or not, to question why/how/when their actions are illegal. > So I don't…

[deleted]

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#546

Post by npteljes » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #25

Serious question, why does everything require an app? Why can't the same thing be accomplished via the mobile web? I get so tired of being prompted to install apps when you could just *show me the damned web page*. Anything that requires speed can be done via webassembly, and sure, anything like games can ship a native app.

With apps, publishers have more control, compared to webpages. For example, it's harder to block ads, or specific components of the page.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#547

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:59 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #514

chrisseaton wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've misread my comments. I didn't predict anything. I asked if it had been found to be illegal. It hasn't. So I don't know how you're describing it as 'illegal'. Apple clearly believe it's legal, and no authority has given an opinion otherwise yet. > And your position, is that you think ... that no judge will rule against them Sorry I'm afraid you've misread again - I didn't say this anywhere. Where do you…

> I think you've misread my comments. No, I really didn't. If you agreed with me that Apple's actions are illegally anti-competitive, then you wouldn't ask why/how/when their actions are illegal. So yes, by asking me why/how/when their actions are illegal, you are disagreeing with me. Thats what it means to ask that. We'll see if you were right or not, to question why/how/when their actions are illegal. > So I don't…

Sorry I still think you're operating under a misunderstanding of the thread.

> We'll see if you were right or not, to question why/how/when their actions are illegal.

Why would the court's opinion change my moral opinion on whether something is or should be illegal or not? Unless there's new info.

The Salem Witches were found guilty in a court, for example. Maybe there's a parallel there? A bit of an hysterical and morally unjust witch hunt.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#548

Post by prezjordan » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:37 AM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #64

drivebycomment wrote: post #30

Per https://fanhouse.app/ , "Fanhouse is the place where creators can monetize their social media personalities by posting freely about their lives, like a finsta, close friends story, or private alt, while connecting and engaging with their top fans." So they built a platform, where they take some cut for themselves, while allowing other people to sell some digital contents on their platform. Apple built a platform,…

But then why doesn't Apple take a 30% cut of every Uber driver fee? 30% of every DoorDash delivered, etc? Why is a platform for monetizing artists any different than a platform for monetizing your car?

The difference is that Uber and Doordash have a lot bargaining power

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#549

Post by addicted » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:50 AM UTC

drivebycomment wrote: post #30

Per https://fanhouse.app/ , "Fanhouse is the place where creators can monetize their social media personalities by posting freely about their lives, like a finsta, close friends story, or private alt, while connecting and engaging with their top fans." So they built a platform, where they take some cut for themselves, while allowing other people to sell some digital contents on their platform. Apple built a platform,…

Does fanhouse also sell access to their “platform” to the users at $600 a pop minimum?

It’s a meaningless comparison because they are completely different kinds of platforms.

The vast majority of the world will never hear of Fanhouse and it’s competitors’ platforms. The vast majority of the world can literally not live their lives without Apple or Google’s platforms.

There is no comparison between the 2.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#550

Post by manigandham » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

martimarkov wrote: post #540

manigandham wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is lost with the ability to have alternative app stores. Creating more choice is the the opposite of forcing anything on users.

It increases the attack vectors for the platform

Maybe, but unlikely. The operating system still needs provide APIs and access. Alternate app stores doesn't mean apps can do anything they want on the device.