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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#541
post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

In some states, minimum wage is 1-2 dollars an hour *less* for 16/17 year olds

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#542
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important. How much stuff one should afford to avoid being called poor. What is the change of the model in case of the restaurant? I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots. But, if we consider these crappy jobs, what about people that are not qualified/able to do any more advanced jobs? People have vastly different c…

> I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots. This is generally not possible at twice the cost. The robots generally suck and break down a lot. Now you've replaced a bunch of low-skilled, interchangeable staff who work like dogs with a fleet of mechanics and an engineering department. Half of the McDonald's automated kiosks I see are broken - and it's usually the…

> This is generally not possible at twice the cost. We get better at automation constantly. Thinking that just because today our technology sucks it will stay this way, is not reasonable in my opinion.

> When it is possible to automate a job away, it is desirable. Yes, it reduces the cost (of the workforce). However, this change comes with a nontrivial social cost and a problem, what to do with the people that are not able to do more advanced stuff.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but some of your numbers are pretty high. Cost of living across the US varies wildly. The numbers are pulled from my most recent billing cycle for Houston and partly extrapolated to minimum wage (which I am most definitely not , but have friends who are). My rent is $1500/mo for 920sqft inside the 610 loop. The leasing office wanted $2000/mo for new contracts in October last year. It's really hard to find places fo…

Are people doing office work for $7.25 in Houston? I agree that prices vary widely, I'm not sure it makes sense to take expensive places as typical.

> Are people doing office work for $7.25 in Houston?

In that it's in an office building, yes. But it's not office work like sitting at a desk.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#544
post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

Then we should also give minors the right to vote, form unions etc.

What you propose is exploitation, since you get to decide their rights and btw you also decided that their labor is worth less, but they have no say in all of these.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#546
post #325

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

A combo meal at many fast food places is nearing the $10 mark, and has passed it for places like Firehouse or Panera.

Labor is typically 20-30% of a restaurants costs, doubling that from say $9 to $18 would add another $2-3 to the price of a meal.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that hard to imagine? For starters, you don't want to have to work every single day. If you work 5 days out of every 7, you only have $41.43 to spend per day. The average cost of a studio apartment is over $900 a month. That's $30 per day. Even if you get roommates, that's going to cost you at least $15 per day. That leaves you $26 a day to spend on food, clothing, hygiene, Internet access, electricity,…

Why would someone near the bottom quintile of income rent in an average cost area? What is the bottom quintile rent for an apartment?

I've looked for about 20 minutes and haven't been able to find a reliable figure nationally, so from a quick search on apartments.com for Minneapolis (random city not known for high cost of living), the 20th percentile studio apartment is $1000. If you want to split an appartment, I'm going to check 1 bedroom, since 2 unrelated people in a studio isn't really practical. Then the 20th percentile is about $1150. (on average for these apartments, parking is an extra $100 or so which you need if you have to shop by price, not location).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#548

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop restaurants (or other business) the real payoff often comes when it comes time to sell and cash in on the capital appreciation of the business assets.

My point isn't to say there's anything wrong with that model: more power to anyone who comes up with a creative, legal way to make a living. Mainly I just want to point out that you often can't look at it simply as making X% margin on sales in a given period of time or any other single metric for many businesses as the real gain is longer term than that.

Which is really a long-winded way of saying: if the ability of a business to make a long term profit is not my concern, their claimed inability to pay a living wage isn't either. If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage, then as the article states, perhaps it shouldn't be in business. If there is a market for whatever product/service they were offering, someone will come up with a sustainable way to serve it that is better for all involved.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#549
post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

That incentivizes companies to hire teenagers instead of adults

Only if adults can't compete with teenagers.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone near the bottom quintile of income rent in an average cost area? What is the bottom quintile rent for an apartment?

I've looked for about 20 minutes and haven't been able to find a reliable figure nationally, so from a quick search on apartments.com for Minneapolis (random city not known for high cost of living), the 20th percentile studio apartment is $1000. If you want to split an appartment, I'm going to check 1 bedroom, since 2 unrelated people in a studio isn't really practical. Then the 20th percentile is about $1150. (on av…

20th percentile apartments don't get advertised on apartments.com, that costs money.
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